Like, seriously Matt, if you have the time, that would be awesome.
Like, seriously Matt, if you have the time, that would be awesome.
That's why Rondo is the other situation to keep an eye on. The Celtics have a lot of uncertainty with 2 aged stars. Boston has a lot to decide this summer, like this:
Lowry + Ross for Rondo?
I freaking love Ross, but I might be tempted to pull this one!
Only thing that worries me a LOT is lack of 3pt threat.
With all that said, I would still consider the trade though. But why would Boston do this? Once Garnett/Pierce retire, don't you think that they would want to build around Rondo who is young and has a good contract? If they don't get JV back for Rondo I could see Ainge slamming the phone down. Don't forget, Boston is in our division. It would take a lot to convince Ainge to trade Rondo to the Raptors.
Without giving JV to Boston, and let's say Boston would be willing to trade Rondo to Toronto, how about this:
The rumour was that Boston was trying to trade Pierce for Gay. We get Pierce and let him play one year before he retires. We get serious cap space back when he's gone and in the same time get Rondo for Lowry and Ross. Toronto only does this so they get Rondo. Boston only gives up Rondo if we take Pierce with him.
It would be a huge gamble as Rondo could backfire.. however if it works out a core with Rondo/JV could be a beautiful thing.
Although again, I don't think Boston would be willing to trade Rondo (or Pierce) to a division rival.
I mean, if KG retires and they buy out Pierce, are the Celtics a playoff team next year? Maybe, but likely not. And if they aren't, are they going to be bad enough to have high hopes of a top 3 pick? Also unlikely. But if they trade Rondo for Demar + 2 1st rd picks (for starters, with whatever else it takes to make things work), then they're looking at a solid young SG who's a good secondary player, one or many draft picks in the deepest draft in a decade, where either Wiggins or Parker could fit nicely next to DeMar, and where they may even draft a PG like Harrison.
If the Celtics don't decide to blow it up, they have very few avenues to improve their team around Rondo, and are looking at being a very mediocre team, struggling to build a winner again. I don't know. Honestly, speaking objectively, I don't think maintaining a Rondo-led team is a very good idea if Pierce and KG are done with the Celtics. I can't see a quick rebuild happening, and if it's going to take 4-5 years, may as well blow it up. I mean, they are considering buying out Pierce and letting him walk. If they were planning to keep building, that seems pretty dumb, as they won't even get a single asset back for their best scorer, and it doesn't really clear up money in any way.
I firmly believe Boston has ZERO interest in trading Rondo for anybody on our roster. Rondo is a wizard with the ball and one of the few PGs that can gaurd his position relatively well... and he's on a sweet, sweet contract. They view him as the centerpiece of the team, now and for the future. They've done well to put together a core of Rondo, Lee, Bradley, Green + whatever they can land for a KG/PP transaction and/or sign with the cap space those guys create. Other than Ross' potential as an outside shooter, the trade options suggested here (Gay, Lowry, Ross) duplicate pieces Boston's already built into their core. I can't see any way they trade Rondo unless they are getting a Westbrook-type peice back.
Also, while maybe they wouldn't want to trade Rondo to us, they clearly like players on our roster. They were a team rumored to be after Gay, as well as the fact that Doc drools about DeMar in the papers when we play them.
Teams in the West that need a PG include New Orleans, Dallas, Sacramento, and Utah. I think any of those teams could come up with a better package then DeMar and 2 first rounders.
NO for example could offer a first rounder, Gordon and Rivers for Rondo and Lee.
Again, I think if they are deciding to tank, they would prefer a legit secondary piece like DeMar, who is nice to have around in the short term and can easily fit as they build for the long term, over a guy like Gordon, who is not a superstar but gets paid like one, and whose injury history leaves serious doubts as to what kind of long-term piece he is.
I think if Boston is going to acquire a lot of salary in a Rondo trade, it would be a very obvious cap relief deal. Maybe somehow try and get Gasol's expiring contract...or you know, find a team with a similar contract and a young asset + pick(s) to throw in. I don't think they will acquire a bloated contract of a young player like Gordon. Maybe a more proven young guy, but then Boston would likely be giving up more than they're getting back (the disadvantage of a trade for a guy like Westbrook, lets say, where OKC would ask for more than Rondo back).
The whole point of all this, as it's taken over this thread temporarily, is not
Demar = Rondo or
DeMar = Love
It's just that DeMar is the best piece we have to build a deal around to get such a player. This is partly because I see it as unlikely that a team trading one of those guys wants the principle piece coming back to be a higher contract, like Gay. I also see it as unlikely that Lowry would be enough to get a deal done, with his small expiring contract. He doesn't give enough financial flexibility or become an asset for the future. Now, it could easily be Lowry + DeMar/Ross and get a pretty good player back, but in such a deal, DeMar and Ross are the targets of the other team, Lowry is just to make money work and provide some cap relief. As for Ross, his contract is obviously way too small to be the centrepiece of any deal except a 1-for-1 type trade with another rookie-scale deal...(Bledsoe for Ross and a 1st rounder?).
Rondo is a 'best player on a contender' type player. He's in the Rose/Paul/Irving-best PG alive conversation. They done tremendous work using their vets to guide him along and mold him from 20-something pick to all-nba talent.
Bradley's all-world defense makes him a nice piece too. He and Rondo starting in the backcourt can lock down opposing perimeters ala Allen/Conley in Memphis. Bradley needs to add the (corner) 3-ball to justify big minutes in key games, and he's shown flashes that he can do it. We've seen guys like Sefolosha, Leonard and Bowen add jumpers and become key pieces of contenders.
Admittedly, I like Green more than most. The big knock on the guy is inconsistency, which I view as an opportunity to exend his "great" stretches as much as I focus on the negative. I think his inconsistency is somewhat learned behavior after deferring to OKC's alpha dogs. I think it's somewhat timidity borne out of not knowing if he can 100% trust his body after his health issues. 2 years removed from his surgery, I think he's a good bet to take the next step as his recovery nears completion (especially from a mental standpoint). His exposure to quality leadership in Boston is something that could help him overcome that learned timidity that marked his earliest days in the NBA. As PP moves into a new phase of his career and Green reaches is (delayed) prime, I like him as a breakout candidate to become a high-impact player. He's also an ideal player for the "small ball 4" position that's becoming more of a necessity.
Lee is the least likeable piece of this "core", but still serviceable as a 3 member of a 3 man guard rotation. He's one of the best corner shooters in the league, plays 1 on 1 & team D, and can handle it a bit. With Rondo & Bradley shooting issues, they may look at moving Lee or Bradley for a better shooter (to play the 2011 Ray Allen role), but all 3 are + players with room to improve.
The biggest issues going forward are nuturing Green to come out of his shell, and making sure their guard are a cohesive unit (that is, making sure nobody hates Rondo like Ray did). Considering they have one of the best and most respected coaches/leaders in the league, they are in a pretty good spot... and they haven't had a lotto pick since the Durant draft, not bad at all.
Adding in that they have cap room galore coming up, and aging but still tradeable assets beyond these 4 players, they are in a much, much better spot than most are willing to give them going forward.
Going into the hypothetical, they could use cap space to add 1 all-nba piece at forward, perhaps get a rotation player with their picks in the next couple of years, and add a vetern contributor (Kobe? -- just kidding!). I see a path for them to remain relevant while rebuilding on the fly. It's impressive. Especially when contrasted with our 5 years and counting lottery results.
Wow. Just saw this thread from a google search. Since we playing the jazz today.
Who do you think is the better player now and who has the better potential?
Had the exact same thought today. Haven't seen how kanter is playing. We'll get a chance tonight.
Are you insane? Trade Lowry?
No. How about Greivis for Bradley. Now we're talking...