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Another 4th quarter collapse. Coaching is a major problem.

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  • #31
    themasao wrote: View Post
    Yep. The irony of the whole "he's our guy -- we've got to go with our guy" justification that Casey regularly throws out to explain poor shot/minute allocation kills me.

    If you reward bad play with more minutes and more shots, and condemn hustle and domination (12 and 6 in 17 min!?!?! can you ask for more???) to the bench. What kind of message do you expect to send to the FUTURE OF YOUR FRANCHISE.


    My neck hurts form shaking my head so much.
    Oh, I don't know. Maybe that a pace of 4 fouls in 17 minutes early in the game is going to get worse when the opposition ramps up their game in the 4th, so STOP fouling at that pace because we'd like to be able to count on you down the stretch in the future? Playing him regardless of his fouling problems teaches him what for the future?

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    • #32
      Fouls are a bullshit excuse. A rookie also needs to learn to play with fouls. And you know, it's easier to learn not to commit them when you get more experience. JV has actually only fouled out of one game, despite his propensity to get in early foul trouble. He has found a way to play big minutes with foul trouble several times, while he's also had some games where he tallies them up quickly and gets nailed to the bench. So clearly, Casey isn't really incorporating that into the logic. It seems pretty arbitrary to me when he's deciding to play JV.

      Really, does it make sense to you, with one player injured, another fouled out, and the 3rd guy clearly the worst big on the night by far for either team (Gray), that he opts to play said worst player of the night instead of a rookie who still has 2 fouls to give and was the most effective player they had against Howard? Just to teach him a lesson about early fouls? When at least one, if not two of those calls were total garbage, too... It wasn't fouls keeping him out of the game, it was Casey. It would be a better lesson to make him play with the fouls and see if he can stay in the game.

      *FWIW, JV's fouling rate is almost exactly the same as Amir, Casey's favorite big (not knocking Amir obviously or anything, just putting it out there to compare)
      JV: 2.9 fpg in 21.0 mpg, 1 foul every 7.2 minutes
      Amir: 3.9 fpg in 27.7 mpg, 1 foul every 7.1 minutes

      Obviously I'm not suggesting he should be played over Amir...but that fouls are clearly shit-poor logic. Other mistakes? Sure, maybe, he is after all a rookie...but again, you have to give young players a chance to play through mistakes. You can't learn much watching from the bench
      Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 9, 2013, 06:48 PM.

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      • #33
        The problem with the logic of "he's trying to hammer home lessons to the rooks", is that he doesn't hold the rest of the team to the same standards. Holding rookies to a high standard based on the fact that you expect them to meet it in the future should also mean that the players you do decide to play meet that higher standard (or something close to it)....I can't say that of AA, or Gray, or Bargs, or when Casey ran other guys out for far too long like Butler last season and Pietrus this year....How many games too many did Pietrus play before he was benched?? Like 5? Casey has a problem with playing vets.

        *Heck, he doesn't even do that with his key players either. He never uses the game as a teaching moment for Gay for taking too many 3s, or Demar for trapping himself on the baseline to take bad fadeaways, or Gray for answering the age old question...what happens when an unstoppable force (Kobe) meets an immovable object (Gray)? It doesn't, the force easily goes around the object. Ok, I just threw that last one in there for fun. But seriously, it's like the key guys/vets I guess only get called out in video sessions, whereas JV, Ross, and Ed when he was here get disciplined during games by getting quick hooks for every mistake. That is messed up.
        Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 9, 2013, 07:40 PM.

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        • #34
          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          The problem with the logic of "he's trying to hammer home lessons to the rooks", is that he doesn't hold the rest of the team to the same standards. Holding rookies to a high standard based on the fact that you expect them to meet it in the future should also mean that the players you do decide to play meet that higher standard (or something close to it)....I can't say that of AA, or Gray, or Bargs, or when Casey ran other guys out for far too long like Butler last season and Pietrus this year....How many games too many did Pietrus play before he was benched?? Like 5? Casey has a problem with playing vets.
          Preach!

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          • #35
            themasao wrote: View Post
            Ladies and Gentlemen: Aaron Fucking Gray.



            EDIT: So having rewatched this a few times, if you look closely you can actually see Casey yell at Gray to run out and double Kobe. So I guess we're talking about Gray's ineptitude + Casey's stupidity, rather than both of those falling on Gray.

            Still tho.
            One thing's for sure: Val would not have played it that way.
            "Stop eating your sushi."
            "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
            "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
            - Jack Armstrong

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            • #36
              RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
              I agree with most of the things you said but AA was playing pretty efficient down the stretch. The defence on Kobe wasn't really a prob, you couldn't defend him better than AA was defending him but he just hit the shots anyways. Other than that I agree with everything, especially about Gay. He should have been benched after all the retarded decisions he was making, not attemping the last FG of the game.
              I'm starting to hate AA with a passion. His D is overrated and he chucks shots like he's the next MJ, i'd rather have Landry Fields guarding Kobe. The dude doesn't think on offense too often, he gets the ball and doesn't see anything but the rim.

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              • #37
                NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                I'm starting to hate AA with a passion. His D is overrated and he chucks shots like he's the next MJ, i'd rather have Landry Fields guarding Kobe. The dude doesn't think on offense too often, he gets the ball and doesn't see anything but the rim.
                I've been saying for a week or two now that Alan Anderson must be the second coming of MJ, and Casey sees it but we don't...he's just waiting to be unleashed, in Casey's eyes.

                Seriously though, I don't know how anyone can not be upset with a coach who calls plays for Alan Anderson down the stretch of a close game. People are saying "Kobe just won it"...well fuck, maybe, but one thing is for sure, if it's Kobe vs. AA, you're not going to win. I don't care if you're trying to exploit a matchup...LA was clearly ok giving up the Meeks-AA matchup, because AA is a shit scorer in actuality who pads his stats by chucking lots of 3s. He's never going to score consistently going one on one. Do I think Casey is the worst coach? no. But day by day, I'm starting to think that he might be very wrong for this roster. I don't expect him to get fired, but I do expect he'll be under pressure right from the start of next season.
                Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 9, 2013, 07:52 PM.

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                • #38
                  Mack North wrote: View Post
                  He never plays in the 4th, so how can he not trust him? Playoffs are not happening this year unfortunately, so I wanna see as much of Ross and JV as I can.

                  I think Casey is trying to save his job by winning games, and BC probably has a say in who he wants to see out there to save his job as well. They were all talking playoffs or bust essentially. They made their bed and shat in it.
                  MLSE needs to clean the house and kick BC and DC out. We need a real GM and a real coach, i wish we had signed Rick Adelman instead

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                  • #39
                    TRex wrote: View Post
                    +1

                    It's comical really. I know Casey trusts his veteran players like Gray/Anderson. But the Raps are now 15 games under .500. So obviously it's NOT WORKING. It's time to let that go. WAKE UP.

                    The focus of the season for the Raps now since they're pretty much out of the race is to develop TR and JV. These 2 should play more. Ross not getting any playing time last night was a joke. JV only playing 17mins was a bigger joke. The guy was playing so well. 12pts and 6rbs and was holding his own against Howard.
                    Forget about Val being a rookie; between his Euroleague and Lithuanian national team play he probably has way more experience in big game, pressure situations. Gray's only ever been a scrub in the NBA; he doesn't know anything about crunch time. And it showed last night.
                    "Stop eating your sushi."
                    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                    - Jack Armstrong

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                    • #40
                      TRex wrote: View Post
                      +1

                      It's comical really. I know Casey trusts his veteran players like Gray/Anderson. But the Raps are now 15 games under .500. So obviously it's NOT WORKING. It's time to let that go. WAKE UP.

                      The focus of the season for the Raps now since they're pretty much out of the race is to develop TR and JV. These 2 should play more. Ross not getting any playing time last night was a joke. JV only playing 17mins was a bigger joke. The guy was playing so well. 12pts and 6rbs and was holding his own against Howard.
                      Casey is just stupid. AA and Gray are complete scrubs, i don't give a shit if they are veterans. You can only justify playing veterans if they have real nba experience and have won at a high level not bench warming scrubs. BC and DC both need to get their ass's kicked out, we need a complete front office overhaul. This is becoming embarrassing

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                      • #41
                        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        I've been saying for a week or two now that Alan Anderson must be the second coming of MJ, and Casey sees it but we don't...he's just waiting to be unleashed, in Casey's eyes.

                        Seriously though, I don't know how anyone can not be upset with a coach who calls plays for Alan Anderson down the stretch of a close game. People are saying "Kobe just won it"...well fuck, maybe, but one thing is for sure, if it's Kobe vs. AA, you're not going to win. I don't care if you're trying to exploit a matchup...LA was clearly ok giving up the Meeks-AA matchup, because AA is a shit scorer in actuality who pads his stats by chucking lots of 3s. He's never going to score consistently going one on one. Do I think Casey is the worst coach? no. But day by day, I'm starting to think that he might be very wrong for this roster. I don't expect him to get fired, but I do expect he'll be under pressure right from the start of next season.
                        Crazy you mentioned that. During last night's game, Lakers up by two 117-115 Raptors ball with not much time on the clock. You would think that Gay or DeRozan would get the ball. Instead they set an iso play for AA. AA got to the rim and got fouled. Went 1 of 2 from the line. Pretty much game over because you knew Kobe would score on the other end.

                        Situation like that you gotta give the ball to your BEST players. I know Artest was guarding Gay, Kobe guarding DeMar and Meeks guarding AA. I don't care about all that. You gotta give the ball to your best players PERIOD.
                        Last edited by The Great One; Sat Mar 9, 2013, 08:24 PM.
                        Mamba Mentality

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                        • #42
                          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          I've been saying for a week or two now that Alan Anderson must be the second coming of MJ, and Casey sees it but we don't...he's just waiting to be unleashed, in Casey's eyes.

                          Seriously though, I don't know how anyone can not be upset with a coach who calls plays for Alan Anderson down the stretch of a close game. People are saying "Kobe just won it"...well fuck, maybe, but one thing is for sure, if it's Kobe vs. AA, you're not going to win. I don't care if you're trying to exploit a matchup...LA was clearly ok giving up the Meeks-AA matchup, because AA is a shit scorer in actuality who pads his stats by chucking lots of 3s. He's never going to score consistently going one on one. Do I think Casey is the worst coach? no. But day by day, I'm starting to think that he might be very wrong for this roster. I don't expect him to get fired, but I do expect he'll be under pressure right from the start of next season.
                          I'm calling it now. If we dont crack 30 wins this season and we start off shit again next season, Casey is gone and if he isn't both BC and DC are going to be gone. The fanbase(as we very well know) are growing restless and if we dont make the playoffs soon we're not going to be a happy bunch.

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                          • #43
                            TRex wrote: View Post
                            Crazy you mentioned that. During last night's game, Lakers up by two 117-115 Raptors ball with not much time on the clock. You would think that Gay or DeRozan would get the ball. Instead they set an iso play for AA. AA got to the rim and got fouled. Went 1 of 2 from the line. Pretty much game over because you knew Kobe would score on the other end.

                            Situation like that you gotta give the ball to your BEST players. I know Artest was guarding Gay, Kobe guarding DeMar and Meeks guarding AA. I don't care about all that. You gotta give the ball to your best players PERIOD.
                            Kobe guarding demar... we should've gave derozan the ball and let him go at kobe. Tire him out on D

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                            • #44
                              NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                              Casey is just stupid. AA and Gray are complete scrubs, i don't give a shit if they are veterans. You can only justify playing veterans if they have real nba experience and have won at a high level not bench warming scrubs. BC and DC both need to get their ass's kicked out, we need a complete front office overhaul. This is becoming embarrassing
                              ive been saying it all along "live by the scrub, die by the scrub!"

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                              • #45
                                TRex wrote: View Post
                                Crazy you mentioned that. During last night's game, Lakers up by two 117-115 Raptors ball with not much time on the clock. You would think that Gay or DeRozan would get the ball. Instead they set an iso play for AA. AA got to the rim and got fouled. Went 1 of 2 from the line. Pretty much game over because you knew Kobe would score on the other end.

                                Situation like that you gotta give the ball to your BEST players. I know Artest was guarding Gay, Kobe guarding DeMar and Meeks guarding AA. I don't care about all that. You gotta give the ball to your best players PERIOD.
                                I agree. I would've even been ok with AA taking a shot off someone else's move. You know, an open shot like a 3, which is his strength. I'm not one of those guys who bashes LeBron for passing to open teammates. An open shot is never a bad option, especially in a guy's comfort zone. Sure you can still argue you want the more talented player taking the shot....but if that player does decide that passing is the better option, either you trust that, or get better players. Either way, AA's not the guy you look to to make plays.

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