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  • #16
    JasonS wrote: View Post
    Sorry...Raptors would need a major overhaul to be significant next season and that won't happen this offseason. they are just gonna hope and pray that their younger players improve next year (mainly JV and Ross, and possibly Derozan).

    Raps are a team with no real identity. They try to be a perimeter team despite being a below average outside shooting team. Gotta learn to take it to the hole with their athleticism. It's a mindset at this point that needs to be tweaked in order to improve.
    Some very good points IMO. Regarding taking it to the hole than settling for jumpers, I think the two main things to address are:

    a) Coaching.
    b) Acquire a PF who is a very strong low post scorer and develop JV to be strong in the low post as well.

    An area that needs a lot of attention. Key to a winning team
    Last edited by Eric Akshinthala; Mon Mar 11, 2013, 03:26 PM.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    • #17
      BallaBalla wrote: View Post
      You don't think that Amir has proven he can start on this team? Or is it that we need another 4 and we can't afford to go out and get a 4 that's worse than amir to come off the bench (i.e. speights, brandon bass, glen davis, etc)
      I personally think Johnson is best suited as the backup PF / 3rd big. To balance the starting lineup, I think this team needs more of a traditional post presence who will draw double-teams, to open up driving lanes and/or spot-up 3pt shots.

      There is an outside chance that Bargnani could return such a player (I wouldn't include Ross in a potential deal), be it as a straight-up trade (ie: Boozer, possibly Gasol) or as part of a multi-team trade. However, I certainly wouldn't hold my breath that Bargnani could possibly return the quality of starting PF (without being too old and/or too expensive) we'd collectively like to see added to this roster.

      The reality of Bargnani's trade value, coupled with the depth on the wings (and the need for salaries to balance in a trade/S&T), is why I am open to the possibility of potentially trading DeRozan for a stud starting PF (ie: Millsap). Adding a stud PF to the starting lineup and moving Fields into the starting lineup (good perimeter defense, doesn't need the ball a ton, hopefully can rediscover 3pt shooting touch) would make for a very solid, balanced lineup. I don't know that I'd pull the trigger on a DeRozan trade, but I'd at least consider my options, if I were BC. The team would still have Johnson & Ross as the primary backups, along with whoever the upgraded backup PG is (pretty solid 8-man rotation).

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      • #18
        BallaBalla wrote: View Post
        The odds of Gay improving any "chunks" at this point is unlikely. He has been in the league long enough and is technically entering his prime.

        I also think the odds of Demar becoming a 40%+ 3PT shooter is extremely unlikely.

        Milsap would be great on the team, like another Amir who can shoot, but the solution has to come from Ross being more of a consistent shooter during the year.
        I agree with a lot on what you are saying. In terms of Rudy, I just want him to take better shots, or learn what a "good shot" is. I feel that his mental aspect of game /bb iq skills could still be tweaked as a form of improvement. Though realistically I understand Rudy is definitely in his prime.

        I feel very optimistic in terms of Demar. Its just hard for me to be a realist just yet. His jumpers have not only looked better but they have become more consistent. I don't see why he can't be a Paul George-esque player in a couple years. I understand they're both different, but Demar seems to be a player that will naturally develop his game and not jump in progression like George in 3 years. We'll see next year...

        In my opinion, Lowry and Ross are the X-factors of the team. The way they evolve to fit the needs of this team will be what makes the raptors either a low seed or threat in the play-offs
        "If thats what you say bruh"- Russel Westbrook

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        • #19
          I voted Tw-eep, although i'm not entirely clear about the definition.

          - Players on this team that I like and think can/will contribute to our success in the future:
          DD, AJ, RG, LF, KL, JV

          - Players who I think can contribute, but probably shouldn't on this team (need a change):
          AB, JLIII, LK, MP

          -Players who i'm fine with having on the team, but can take or leave depending on the situation (need filler/incentive in a trade, or would rather give their roster spot to someone else):
          AG, TR, ST, QA

          First group is basically the "core" as it is now constructed, the second group is by consensus on their way out, and the third group may get me in trouble because of Ross' inclusion (whatever its a blog). So yeah, I think we're sitting pretty good. Based on these groupings I would say that we need to address starting PF, backup center, and backup PG. I think these positions should be filled by vets, but a PF that is well on their way to "starter" designation who needs a little development would be fine with me too.
          Welp, that sucked.

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          • #20
            Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
            Putting aside his salary, Gay's acquisition has not spelt a mind-boggling improvement but nevertheless some improvement is apparent. The question I'm asking is:- for the Raptors to be significant next season, does the roster need minor tweaking, a sweeping change(replace majority of the players, GM and Coach) or a bit of both(not minor nor major)?

            Personally I think the team needs to add a starting PF, a solid back up PG and a new Coach. I guess it could be called a tweak. What are your opinions? Please name names if you have them in mind. Note that tanking is also an option considering it's now only a matter of time before it becomes official that OKC will use our pick in 2013.
            I'm unclear on what significant means.

            *Not even going to touch what tweeping means...
            Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Mar 11, 2013, 03:51 PM.

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            • #21
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              I'm unclear on what significant means.

              *Not even going to touch what tweeping means...
              By 'significant' I mean 'serious contender'. Tw-eep is made up. Just combined 'tweak' and 'sweep' meaning neither small nor major changes.
              Attitude Is A Choice.

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              • #22
                Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                By 'significant' I mean 'serious contender'. Tw-eep is made up. Just combined 'tweak' and 'sweep' meaning neither small nor major changes.
                I was confused too... if there aren't any major changes or minor changes, isn't that just no changes and keeping the team as is?

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                • #23
                  BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                  The odds of Gay improving any "chunks" at this point is unlikely. He has been in the league long enough and is technically entering his prime.

                  I also think the odds of Demar becoming a 40%+ 3PT shooter is extremely unlikely.

                  Milsap would be great on the team, like another Amir who can shoot, but the solution has to come from Ross being more of a consistent shooter during the year.
                  I'm not looking for huge improvements.... just a return to his 2010-2011 self.

                  He was playing some great ball prior to his shoulder injury in February 2011. The Grizz were also playing like one of the top teams in the league prior to his injury from early December onwards.

                  Come on McKechnie, earn your $$!

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                  • #24
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    I was confused too... if there aren't any major changes or minor changes, isn't that just no changes and keeping the team as is?
                    I'm sorry there's been confusion. The team 'as is', would probably make the play-offs, probably not. I mean experts would probably rank the team anywhere between 7th and 10th in the East. A significant team or a serious contender would be built to definitely make the play-offs and even be good enough to go to the 2nd round. At least on paper. I'll be very surprised if BC and Co. are not planning on doing that next year.
                    Attitude Is A Choice.

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                    • #25
                      Ok, I voted tweak, and I will explain.

                      I think a sweep is either done with the intention of tanking, or the intention of gutting your team to get a legit franchise player. If the Raps do the former, well than it's the same option as tanking. If they do the latter, it may put them on a more steady path to building a contender, but likely will create so many holes that they will take a couple of seasons to plug them anyway even if they are a playoff team. So it's not an option in the short term with this roster.

                      Basically, I see a tweak as the only realistic option with this current roster. I also do not think they will be a serious contender. It basically got my vote by default as being the only thing I believe has a remote chance of working out so well in the short term. They would have to turn a BArgs trade into something unbelievably beneficial, and/or maybe have the same luck with their MLE and end of bench signings. This team will ikely be a playoff team, but they will not be able to be contenders. Maybe a tweak will work out miraculously for the next couple of years though....I don't think anything else will, or is feasible, in order to make the team contenders.

                      Definitions I use are based primarily on shedding players not acquiring them:
                      Sweep = losing 2 or 3 starters and maybe more in terms of key bench players to try and get a major talent upgrade, likely just one or two players, one being a franchise player type (or repeat all-star in prime)
                      Tweak = losing one starter, or maybe a couple of key rotation players. Talent coming back uncertain, mostly depending on fit working out, or health being maintained, or fulfilling potential...
                      Tweep = Tweak in roster change, but a sweep talent-wise??? like if Bargs and John Lucas turned into one of the top PFs (West, Millsap, Smith) available? To me this option is either a fairy tale, or just a tweak that works out beyond expectations, so I voted tweak.
                      Tank = sweeping change with the intent of losing...not even going to try and turn players into an all-star/franchise type.
                      Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Mar 11, 2013, 05:39 PM.

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                      • #26
                        we need to sweep the bench cept for Ross and Telly

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                        • #27
                          white men can't jump wrote: View Post

                          I think a sweep is either done with the intention of tanking, or the intention of gutting your team to get a legit franchise player.
                          I didn't mean 'sweep' to be tanking but I see how it could mean that as well. The best example I can give is the team that ended up the Atlantic champions in BC's 1st year. If I remember correctly, only 4 players from the previous year were retained. A complete make-over(almost) resulted in a winner and eventually a division title.

                          It's highly unlikely that will be done again though. Considering the present pieces have been put together by BC, tweaking is most probably what's going to take place. However with some creativity and risky trades, I think it is possible to be more than a mere 1st round play-off team. A Coaching change will help a great deal.

                          A complete sweep can't be ruled out if BC is fired.
                          Attitude Is A Choice.

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                          • #28
                            Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                            I didn't mean 'sweep' to be tanking but I see how it could mean that as well. The best example I can give is the team that ended up the Atlantic champions in BC's 1st year. If I remember correctly, only 4 players from the previous year were retained. A complete make-over(almost) resulted in a winner and eventually a division title.

                            It's highly unlikely that will be done again though. Considering the present pieces have been put together by BC, tweaking is most probably what's going to take place. However with some creativity and risky trades, I think it is possible to be more than a mere 1st round play-off team. A Coaching change will help a great deal.

                            A complete sweep can't be ruled out if BC is fired.
                            That's a poor example though, because none of the changes had real risk. Trading away guys like Araujo and Charlie V, and signing unknowns like Garbo and Parker, were all moves made not to be a winner, but to move the team out of the rebuilding craphole it was in for a couple of years. The "sweeping" changes that happen when you go from tank-mode into a competitive mode are a natural evolution of the roster. If only 4 players were retained from this current roster, it would mean much riskier moves being made. It would hardly be a natural evolution of the roster. IT should be worth noting those changes did not result in a serious contender (division title aside, a 47-win team is not a serious contender), nor in a sustainable roster. It depended on role players overachieving consistently and always lacked quality talent after Bosh, who was not a true franchise player. A real sweep at that time for BC would have been to trade Bosh away as soon as he got there if he didn't like the prospect of building around him.

                            *sweeping change to me, for this team, would either mean rebuilding and scrapping everything except probably JV, and one or two of Ross/Demar/Gay(who they would trade for contract reasons if wanting to rebuild, if they could), or trying to turn 2 or 3 major assets (and I mean major, like Amir, Ross, Demar, Lowry, maybe a pick on top) into a legit franchise player if one becomes available.
                            Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Mar 11, 2013, 10:03 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Is Telfair a better 3rd string than Lucas?

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                              • #30
                                BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                                The odds of Gay improving any "chunks" at this point is unlikely. He has been in the league long enough and is technically entering his prime.

                                I also think the odds of Demar becoming a 40%+ 3PT shooter is extremely unlikely.

                                Milsap would be great on the team, like another Amir who can shoot, but the solution has to come from Ross being more of a consistent shooter during the year.
                                Nobody's asking derozan to be 40% 3 pt shooter (a number that would rank him among the best of all time). I think most would be happy if he shot 32-35% from 3 which is feasible if that's what he chooses to focus on this summer

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