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Disappointing Season, Optimistic Outlook

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  • #16
    Halifax Raps Fan wrote: View Post
    Yeah, we get it...you hate AB PLEASE MOVE ON!!!
    +1

    Comment


    • #17
      T.Dot wrote: View Post
      +1
      -10000
      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

      Comment


      • #18
        I guess there will be some kind fans party after AB leave this team?

        Comment


        • #19
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          I believe that is circumstantial and coincidental at best as I recently learned.

          But seriously, what is the point of this? How many times have people brought this up? Jose is gone and most likely never to return. The Raptors were losers for 5 years with Jose. Get over it.


          But to play with those game samples:

          Before trade, Lowry never started without Bargnani which, in my opinion, is huge.

          Jose starting with Bargnani starting: 0-0 (lucky mothafocka)

          Jose starting vs. playoff teams: 1-8

          Jose started 16 of 25 games vs. non playoff teams.

          Jose started 15 of 25 games at HOME.


          Since trade, Lowry starting:

          10-11 with 14 playoff opponents.

          Remove Bargnani again, Lowry starting:

          9-8


          For shits and giggles, how has Jose fared starting in Detroit?

          6-15 for .286 winning percentage

          How were Detroit doing before trade?

          17-29 for .370 winning percentage

          Jose has been great personally shooting 50% from field, 50% from 3pt, 90% from ft with 11.8 points and 7.3 assists. Unfortunately that is not helping Detroit win anymore games nor is the 102.1ppg they are allowing with Jose starting. Prior to the trade they were giving up just 96.7ppg.

          Surely though Jose has helped Detroit's offense.... right? Prior to trade, 94.6ppg forced. Since trade, 94.0ppg.


          There are all sorts of factors that could play in to this so I don't wish to make too many conclusions based upon this. However, using the numbers as you have initially it would appear Toronto is better off starting Kyle Lowry without Bargnani than starting Jose Calderon without Bargnani. Also it would appear Detroit was better offensively and defensively prior to the trade for Calderon.
          Look at the teams the Pistons have faced since Jose got there. It's easy to explain why they are losing more.

          Knicks x2
          Nets
          Spurs x2
          Bucks
          Grizz
          Pacers x2
          Hawks
          Mavs
          Clippers
          Jazz
          Warriors
          Blazers

          Even if you ignore the stats, it's blatantly obvious that Lowry is worse. He constantly makes bone headed decisions (along with gay) and he on top of the he hasn't been playing amazing defense that everyone here claims that he does. Most of the games he's been decent at best and even in the games that he plays well he always makes terrible decisions down the stretch that hurt the team.

          Honestly most of those wins I wouldn't put on Lowry or Gay for that matter. Different players stepped up for those wins. With Jose it was clear he was running the show and created a lot of movement in the offense.
          Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Sun Mar 17, 2013, 05:22 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
            Look at the teams the Pistons have faced since Jose got there. It's easy to explain why they are losing more.

            Knicks x2
            Nets
            Spurs x2
            Bucks
            Grizz
            Pacers x2
            Hawks
            Mavs
            Clippers
            Jazz
            Warriors
            Blazers

            Even if you ignore the stats, it's blatantly obvious that Lowry is worse. He constantly makes bone headed decisions (along with gay) and he on top of the he hasn't been playing amazing defense that everyone here claims that he does. Most of the games he's been decent at best and even in the games that he plays well he always makes terrible decisions down the stretch that hurt the team.

            Honestly most of those wins I wouldn't put on Lowry or Gay for that matter. Different players stepped up for those wins. With Jose it was clear he was running the show and created a lot of movement in the offense.
            And look at the teams Toronto has played:

            Atlanta
            Knicks x2
            Miami x2
            Boston x2
            Indiana x2
            Denver
            LA Clippers
            Memphis
            Milwaukee
            Golden State

            You are reaching when you include Mavs and Blazers. Both are under .500.

            I'm not ignoring the stats - you are my friend. TOronto is 10-11 since trade. Detroit is 6-15. Detroit is worse offensively and defensively than before the trade.

            You lack of objectivity is especially telling with the bold statement. The Raptors are a better team now than they were before the trade.

            You delusions with the memory of Jose is especially telling with the underlined statement. You clearly don't remember Jose pounding the ball as players stood watching one guy run off screens and the consistent 6-8 minutes stretches without a field goal. The Raptors offense was shit with Calderon and it is still shit without him. Miami put on a ball movement clinic today. The Raptors had no ball movement with Jose and they have no ball movement without him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              And look at the teams Toronto has played:

              Atlanta
              Knicks x2
              Miami x2
              Boston x2
              Indiana x2
              Denver
              LA Clippers
              Memphis
              Milwaukee
              Golden State

              You are reaching when you include Mavs and Blazers. Both are under .500.

              I'm not ignoring the stats - you are my friend. TOronto is 10-11 since trade. Detroit is 6-15. Detroit is worse offensively and defensively than before the trade.

              You lack of objectivity is especially telling with the bold statement. The Raptors are a better team now than they were before the trade.

              You delusions with the memory of Jose is especially telling with the underlined statement. You clearly don't remember Jose pounding the ball as players stood watching one guy run off screens and the consistent 6-8 minutes stretches without a field goal. The Raptors offense was shit with Calderon and it is still shit without him. Miami put on a ball movement clinic today. The Raptors had no ball movement with Jose and they have no ball movement without him.
              +1. these point guard arguments are stupid. Jose and Lowry can both run a team, but this teams offense is setting them up to look bad

              Comment


              • #22
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                For shits and giggles, how has Jose fared starting in Detroit?

                6-15 for .286 winning percentage

                How were Detroit doing before trade?

                17-29 for .370 winning percentage

                Jose has been great personally shooting 50% from field, 50% from 3pt, 90% from ft with 11.8 points and 7.3 assists. Unfortunately that is not helping Detroit win anymore games nor is the 102.1ppg they are allowing with Jose starting. Prior to the trade they were giving up just 96.7ppg.

                Surely though Jose has helped Detroit's offense.... right? Prior to trade, 94.6ppg forced. Since trade, 94.0ppg.


                There are all sorts of factors that could play in to this so I don't wish to make too many conclusions based upon this. However, using the numbers as you have initially it would appear Toronto is better off starting Kyle Lowry without Bargnani than starting Jose Calderon without Bargnani. Also it would appear Detroit was better offensively and defensively prior to the trade for Calderon.
                Many factors for Detroit's swoon, but right up there is when Andre Drummond went out. Piston's were right on the edge of winning/losing games, and Drummond was the highest PER & best DRTG on the team. Even in limited minutes (~20MPG), it's tough to lose a difference maker like that when your margin for winning & losing is slim.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Totally agree with Matt, at this point, the point guard hasn't been the problem (when has it been in the last couple years in general?). It's the coaching and the system put in place to run the offense, the sets are poorly executed, and it breaks down far too often, and too easily, which allows defenses to really buckle down, and make the offense take bad shots, take poor possessions i.e forcing the ball into Gay's hands to make plays in iso, which is 75% of the time.
                  Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    I believe that is circumstantial and coincidental at best as I recently learned.

                    But seriously, what is the point of this? How many times have people brought this up? Jose is gone and most likely never to return. The Raptors were losers for 5 years with Jose. Get over it.


                    But to play with those game samples:

                    Before trade, Lowry never started without Bargnani which, in my opinion, is huge.

                    Jose starting with Bargnani starting: 0-0 (lucky mothafocka)

                    Jose starting vs. playoff teams: 1-8

                    Jose started 16 of 25 games vs. non playoff teams.

                    Jose started 15 of 25 games at HOME.


                    Since trade, Lowry starting:

                    10-11 with 14 playoff opponents.

                    Remove Bargnani again, Lowry starting:

                    9-8


                    For shits and giggles, how has Jose fared starting in Detroit?

                    6-15 for .286 winning percentage

                    How were Detroit doing before trade?

                    17-29 for .370 winning percentage

                    Jose has been great personally shooting 50% from field, 50% from 3pt, 90% from ft with 11.8 points and 7.3 assists. Unfortunately that is not helping Detroit win anymore games nor is the 102.1ppg they are allowing with Jose starting. Prior to the trade they were giving up just 96.7ppg.

                    Surely though Jose has helped Detroit's offense.... right? Prior to trade, 94.6ppg forced. Since trade, 94.0ppg.


                    There are all sorts of factors that could play in to this so I don't wish to make too many conclusions based upon this. However, using the numbers as you have initially it would appear Toronto is better off starting Kyle Lowry without Bargnani than starting Jose Calderon without Bargnani. Also it would appear Detroit was better offensively and defensively prior to the trade for Calderon.
                    This no surprise. We all know that Jose is a terrible defnder.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      psrs1 wrote: View Post
                      This no surprise. We all know that Jose is a terrible defnder.
                      Calderon fans are not

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Going back to the point about PF i dont really care if Amir starts or comes off the bench. We need another big of a similar talent level. The only "talented" big i would really take is Gasol for his mentorship of JV and his passing/postup game. We all know hes injury prone but hey we had bargs... cant get much worse tbh.

                        The perfect PF for us i believe is Brandon Bass. Now, i have no idea if we could get him or not but hes a great shooter which i believe we need, hard working rebounder, has size, plays defence and has been apart of a winning program. I think he would be a perfect fit, if we can get him or not who knows, i did hear Boston had interest in Bargs... depends how much i guess.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Brandon Bass would be great. Solid Vet not to mention stays healthy.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I've learned to try and temper my optimism. Each year is the same story in that we have a terrible season, but you can see clear paths to improvement, however each year the team finds a way to get back to mediocrity. Actually mediocrity is what we were in the Bosh era and sadly we care currently trying to get back to that stage.

                            We went into this season thinking our 12th ranked defense (I beleive) from last season could take another step forward with Lowry at the point, a legit sized C in JV, DD and ED with another year of experience and time to improve their D and with the only set back I saw being the switch from JJ to Fields. I think our defense regressing to Triano levels was the most disappointing aspect of this entire season for me. I really don't even care about Bargnani's lack of production because I thought our defense is what we'd be able to hang our hat on every night, but then the basketball gods laid a big ole' steaming pile of crap on our team. Can't wait to see what they have planned for us next season!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              I'm probably a sucker but I am expecting a return to Landry of rookie year. Basically doing all the things he does now but the ability to shoot will return. Yes, I know, still overpaid.
                              I hate to say it .. but I think you are a sucker on this one. His regression from a shooting standpoint was considerable last year, and is even worse this year. I just dont see him going from a guy who literally has zero confidence shooting outside of 10 feet right now to a legitimate NBA jumpshooting threat. That doesnt mean he cant give us some solid minutes (we have lots of guys who like to shoot) .. cutting to the hoop, playing D, running the break. Basically everything that AA should do now, except he ruins by chucking non stop.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                mountio wrote: View Post
                                I hate to say it .. but I think you are a sucker on this one. His regression from a shooting standpoint was considerable last year, and is even worse this year. I just dont see him going from a guy who literally has zero confidence shooting outside of 10 feet right now to a legitimate NBA jumpshooting threat. That doesnt mean he cant give us some solid minutes (we have lots of guys who like to shoot) .. cutting to the hoop, playing D, running the break. Basically everything that AA should do now, except he ruins by chucking non stop.
                                I think it comes down to whether or not Landry commits to reconstructing his shot this summer. And I mean, full on changing the mechanics of how he holds/releases the ball. Because nobody who shot-puts the ball (with zero arc) will ever shoot high percentages.

                                Comment

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