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If Cavs are looking to move top pick, Gay for #1?

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  • #31
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    They won't get it. If they do it's cause Minny knows they can't keep K Love in free agency.
    Doesn't matter if they don't get it. They won't move it for Gay, it flies counter to history. Tell me how many times in the past twenty years the pick was traded? I can think of only 2011 but I think that happened before the lottery established it as the #1.

    There is a good reason you don't see that pick being dealed often, even in media advertised "weak drafts"...

    I don't see any team in top five viewing it favorable to move the pick for Gay. Most those teams have been so busy gutting so that they could get the picks and cap space. Now they're going to turn around and trade that for $16M/yr Rudy Gay? Good player but doesn't fit the gutting plan.

    If someone wants Gay now i think it will be an established team looking to shake it up. In a years' time I could see a team looking to gut willing to deal for him but you're not getting a sniff at a high lotto pick in either scenario.

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    • #32
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      Doesn't matter if they don't get it. They won't move it for Gay, it flies counter to history. Tell me how many times in the past twenty years the pick was traded? I can think of only 2011 but I think that happened before the lottery established it as the #1.

      There is a good reason you don't see that pick being dealed often, even in media advertised "weak drafts"...
      yep

      It's a double whammy...

      -the team with the pick doesn't want to risk the PR disaster. #1 picks are supposed to be be the best way (arguably) to add a franchise player. So the team with the pick has to only consider trading it for a guy who's arguably a franchise player.

      -But this year's also a weak draft, so no team is willing to give up the asset(s) it takes to get a #1 pick in a trade. It would be hard for a team to justify trading away their best player for it.

      Gay is not enough to get the pick, and this year the #1 pick has too much risk for Gay to be worth it (IMO). I'm sure Minny will feel the same way about Love. Does anyone think Noel or McLemore are an easy bet to be better than Gay or Love? I don't.

      It would be interesting to see what the value is outside the top 5 though. Teams like Sacramento(7th), Detroit(8th) and Minnesota(9th) might not be asking for too much.

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      • #33
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        Doesn't matter if they don't get it. They won't move it for Gay, it flies counter to history. Tell me how many times in the past twenty years the pick was traded? I can think of only 2011 but I think that happened before the lottery established it as the #1.
        Exactly twenty years ago...C-Webb for Penny . But that's only because Orlando also had the #1 pick (Shaq) the year before.

        I agree with your point though.
        Last edited by JStockton; Wed May 29, 2013, 05:33 PM.

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        • #34
          Gay for #1 and Thompson sure lets do it

          which = Gay for Trey Burke and Tristan Thompson.

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          • #35
            Hugmenot wrote: View Post
            Memphis tried to move Gay for a long time and were finally able to trade him to the Raptors for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and a lottery pick that was probably projected in the 7-9 range. And yet, someone thinks he's now worth Andy and the 1st overall pick.

            What has Gay showed in Toronto to warrant the Raptors to seek a better package than Memphis received?
            Absolutely spot on.

            If Gay for Andy + the #1 were on the table, though, I'd jump on that in an instant. Can you imagine our back line with JV and Varejão together? If he came back healthy, that would make us instantly the 5 seed or higher, with a top 3 defense.

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            • #36
              Hugmenot wrote: View Post
              Memphis tried to move Gay for a long time and were finally able to trade him to the Raptors for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and a lottery pick that was probably projected in the 7-9 range. And yet, someone thinks he's now worth Andy and the 1st overall pick.

              What has Gay showed in Toronto to warrant the Raptors to seek a better package than Memphis received?
              Just to be clear on my stance, I agree with you 100%. My post was more about this being the kind of deal they should be pursuing if they decide to move Gay. If Cleveland were to offer the #1 for Rudy Gay, in any scenario (+Andy or whatever), they should fire their GM immediately.
              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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              • #37
                Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                Memphis tried to move Gay for a long time and were finally able to trade him to the Raptors for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and a lottery pick that was probably projected in the 7-9 range. And yet, someone thinks he's now worth Andy and the 1st overall pick.

                What has Gay showed in Toronto to warrant the Raptors to seek a better package than Memphis received?

                The fact Gay can't shoot the corner three with consistencies makes him a less than ideal fit in Cleveland. Gee was asked to develop that shot over the last two seasons and he failed. Good 4th wing but Gee is not a starter-quality player.

                The consensus on RealCavsFans is Cleveland would like to trade down to select Otto, Oladipo or Len, or package it with other assets to obtain an all-star player, like Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge. Rudy Gay just isn't good enough to be put in that category.

                I believe the most likely scenario is Cleveland will keep the pick and select Nerlens Noel. I would not be surprised if they acquire the Dallas pick and package it with other picks to obtain another pick in the 5 - 7 range.
                Lets not be revisionist historians. Memphis was making a salary dump while attempting to stay competitive. They would not take back equal dollars and they had to get pieces that fit.

                What might allow the Raptors to get a better package? If they took on another teams expiring contract that is currently not movable (Ben Gordon comes immediately to mind).

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                • #38
                  Not all #1's are created equal.

                  The Cleveland Cavaliers are shopping the first overall pick in the 2013 NBA Draft. The Cavaliers are fielding calls and gauging interest in the top pick, but most league sources believe Cleveland will have a difficult time finding a trade partner that is willing to part with anything significant to acquire the top pick since this class is widely regarded as being weak, especially at the top of the draft.
                  Cleveland wants to make the playoffs next season so their interest in a player like Love, who would take them to the next level, makes sense. But again, it’s hard to imagine Minnesota giving up Love for the top pick, or any team giving up any All-Star player for the No. 1 pick. If this were the 2014 NBA Draft, there would be teams lining up to trade for the No. 1 pick since Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker and even Julius Randle are viewed as franchise-changing stars. Most executives feel this draft doesn’t have any those kind of players.
                  Another scenario that Cleveland would likely be open to is finding a trade partner that would allow them to move down a few spots to select Otto Porter out of Georgetown, who they have grown to really like. Porter would be a reach with the top overall pick and he might struggle if he has to the deal with the lofty expectations associated with being the No. 1 pick. However, Porter at a slightly lower pick makes the most sense for the Cavaliers.
                  Cleveland’s biggest need is at small forward since they have used a first-round pick on a point guard (Kyrie Irving), shooting guard (Dion Waiters), power forward (Tristan Thompson) and center (Tyler Zeller) in the last two years. Porter could be their small forward of the future, who develops alongside Irving, Waiters, Thompson and Zeller. However, Porter at No. 1 is too high since he’s not considered a star player at the next level. Porter is widely regarded as more of second option/impact role player in the NBA. He fills Cleveland’s need, but he’s not the best available player on the board at No. 1.
                  http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-cav...ping-no-1-pick

                  I don't think Porter gets by Washington.

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                  • #39
                    jimmie wrote: View Post
                    Rebuilding without tanking. Exhibit A.

                    Varejao = expiring, good vet presence, allows you to ditch Gray if you want
                    #1 pick = asset to use or trade
                    Alonzo Gee = also expiring and can fill a need on this team while he's here

                    If not this move, then similar move(s). This is how you improve financial flex and asset accrual while not actively trying to lose more games.
                    I laughed at Exhibit A. The Cavs would never do this trade!

                    It's not really a great example of what the Raptors should do if it's completely unrealistic.
                    Last edited by Fully; Wed May 29, 2013, 07:28 PM.

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                    • #40
                      If we do trade for the 1st pick, they should select Ben McLemore. Trade away Derozan for a 1st rnd pick next draft. If you haven't seen his game, search him up on Youtube. I think hes the guy most likely to become a superstar in this draft

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                      • #41
                        The Toronto Opportunists

                        On the flip side of this, why on earth does the next GM make one of his first acts a high risk move by trading Gay and something else to acquire a draft choice of the highest profile but great uncertainty? If the guy doesn't turn out to be an all-star he will be dogged in Toronto just like Bargnani(And Colangelo). I'd rather see them wait it out, see what happens on draft night and if somebody is looking to deal a lotto pick and their guy is there then they work a deal. The Raptors need to be opportunists and by the sounds of the Cavs rumors the situation doesn't currently sound like much of an attractive opportunity.

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                        • #42
                          Apollo wrote: View Post
                          On the flip side of this, why on earth does the next GM make one of his first acts a high risk move by trading Gay and something else to acquire a draft choice of the highest profile but great uncertainty? If the guy doesn't turn out to be an all-star he will be dogged in Toronto just like Bargnani(And Colangelo). I'd rather see them wait it out, see what happens on draft night and if somebody is looking to deal a lotto pick and their guy is there then they work a deal. The Raptors need to be opportunists and by the sounds of the Cavs rumors the situation doesn't currently sound like much of an attractive opportunity.
                          Maybe there's someone he really likes at the top of the draft? Maybe he realizes that paying Rudy Gay $37 million over the next two years is a pretty good recipe for a mediocre team?

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                          • #43
                            isaacthompson wrote: View Post
                            Absolutely.

                            Kinda funny this comes up; if we go for Otto Porter, there are some similarities between the two. Share the same jersey number too.

                            Watch the first part of this video, especially the three from 0:05 to 0:08, and tell me his play doesn't look exactly like Rudy:

                            Seems like he spins the ball when he shoots it

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                            • #44
                              Fully wrote: View Post
                              Maybe there's someone he really likes at the top of the draft? Maybe he realizes that paying Rudy Gay $37 million over the next two years is a pretty good recipe for a mediocre team?
                              Colangelo really liked Andrea Bargnani. The Nets really liked Kenyon Martin...

                              Gay doesn't add to mediocrity, he's a really good player.

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                              • #45
                                Apollo wrote: View Post
                                Colangelo really liked Andrea Bargnani. The Nets really liked Kenyon Martin...

                                Gay doesn't add to mediocrity, he's a really good player.
                                And that is what is lost when you make on average $18M over next 2 years.

                                If he was making $12-13, he never gets traded or he returns much more.

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