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Are Casey and Masai Really on the Same Page

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  • #16
    If Casey and Masai are not on the same page, I hope Casey heeds the words of Bill Russell and the assessment he has of Red and Pop:

    "(Late Celtics coach Red) Auerbach had a system where there's a place for every kind of player," Russell said. "Never once in the years he coached that I was there did I ever hear him say to a player, 'You have to change this.' He said my job as a coach is to figure out what you do, and find a place in the system."

    It's not all that different than what Popovich has been able to do with the Spurs, making the most of role players like Steve Kerr, Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen in the past and Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green and Matt Bonner in the present. Asked if he saw similarities between the Celtics' Red Auerbach and Popovich, Russell agreed.

    "Yeah," he said. "Even when they had a bad year, it was a good year. I think he does a remarkable job."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...spurs/2436743/

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    • #17
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Do you mean the Knicks or from the NBA head office?

      He came from head office.
      My bad, just skimmed the news about it, and New York stood out....either way, money is probably a factor, as well as city. I don't know how much a league office job pays, but I can't imagine it's significantly different than a job in a team's office. If someone is asking you to move from NYC to Denver for work, there better be a pretty hefty payraise. And again, the city/lifestyle adjustment to Toronto would probably be preferred than Denver for someone coming from NYC.

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      • #18
        I don't know. I'm not saying it's good if they are not on the same page, but I do feel like there's a bit more transparency in the PR process now.

        As many have said, you could definitely feel that BC was pulling Casey's strings, both as a coach and in front of the cameras. It was so incredibly obvious a lot of the time when Casey was saying something he didn't really want.

        I don't get that impression with Ujiri. They are both being diplomatic and trying to say the right things, but it doesn't feel like they're being prepped with the same talking points.

        On whether they actually are on the same page, I'm ok with the comment about not being on the same paragraph or whatever. It may indeed be something as simple about how to fill out the roster (favour youth or vets?) or some crap like that. Casey obviously wants vets. Ujiri obviously just wants to see about adding talent, and making the end of bench younger. I'm sure that last part pisses Casey off since he loves his end of bench vets. Either way, if they can't totally get in sync, Casey is gone next summer, no harm done. If they can, then that should only be positive for the team.

        I don't think it's veterans, strictly speaking, that the Raptors lack. It's leadership. This team is so lacking in that it's brutal. Lowry was a big disappointment in that aspect last season. We'll see if he can turn it around because he definitely has the tools, including character, to be a team leader. I also think JV is a natural leader, and is another reason I consider him untouchable, aside from the obvious benefits of a 2-way big with all-star talent. Gay showed some leadership qualities, but just doesn't seem to have that presence about him. Adding a vet is usually the easiest way to give a big injection of leadership to the roster...but it also has to be from an important player, much like West's addition helping Indiana.

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        • #19
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          If Casey and Masai are not on the same page, I hope Casey heeds the words of Bill Russell and the assessment he has of Red and Pop:
          I think a system needs all sorts of players, absolutely. All those guys listed were extremely skilled in a particular dimension, whether it's 3pt shooting (Kerr, Green, Bonner) or defense (Bowen, Leonard). I think a problem only surfaces when players either have no clear skill in which they excel, or when a team has too much redundancy of a certain skill and not enough of a different certain skill.

          Also, in general, I think there's been a pendulum in many major sports over the past decade or so, which swings from a preference for specialized players to a preference for well rounded players. I think under BC the Raptors have been going more for broadly athletic players, who tend to be well rounded (good at everything, but great at nothing). I'm hoping to see the Raptors pendulum swing back to more specialization, where you want guys who are well above average at particular skills (ie: passing, rebounding, defense, 3pt shooting, interior offense, etc...). It's then up to the coach to build a system that effectively fits all those skills together.

          I think that's why so many posters on RR look at the Raptors' current roster and say that while there are many talented players, the overall skill level in certain areas and the breakdown/fit of those various skills is severely lacking. I think that's also why there's been so much argument about the redundancy of players like Amir/Davis and Gay/DeRozan; there's no doubting the individual overall talent of these guys, but rather the level of a specific skill and/or the fit of the skill(s) they each bring to the table (whether in the starting lineup or more generally to the roster).
          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jun 20, 2013, 12:51 PM.

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          • #20
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            If Casey and Masai are not on the same page, I hope Casey heeds the words of Bill Russell and the assessment he has of Red and Pop:
            While a commendable trait and talent to possess in a coach, the reality is both Red and Popovich have/had great say (if not final say) in the players they draft or trade for...so the acquired talent pool available start at second base sotospeak in terms of incorporation into their system. They follow a tempplate. For the vast majority of teams and the well run orgs. it is the constant communication between coach and the GM that also permits similar results if input in personnel choices are discussed internally so all are on the same page.... which MU has said shall be a pillar of his GMship.

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            • #21
              Casey has been around for 2 seasons now so undoubtedly he will be overvaluing guys like Rudy, Amir and DeMar Ujiri just got here so he has no gauge to base this value on easier to move players out of ignorance and zero attachment. Any good GM will watch tape and talk to everyone before making moves. Hence why Ujiri may have wanted to rip down this roster to the bones of JV Ross and begin on top of that but hes taking a wait and see approach, if this was next years draft I think Ujiri would be making a complete rebuild move or at the very least if he had picks this year he would be, BC left him in the trap of his fail safe for the most part BCs team will be playing next year because of the limited resources left to Ujiri to change anything.

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              • #22
                Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                Casey has been around for 2 seasons now so undoubtedly he will be overvaluing guys like Rudy, Amir and DeMar Ujiri just got here so he has no gauge to base this value on easier to move players out of ignorance and zero attachment. Any good GM will watch tape and talk to everyone before making moves. Hence why Ujiri may have wanted to rip down this roster to the bones of JV Ross and begin on top of that but hes taking a wait and see approach, if this was next years draft I think Ujiri would be making a complete rebuild move or at the very least if he had picks this year he would be, BC left him in the trap of his fail safe for the most part BCs team will be playing next year because of the limited resources left to Ujiri to change anything.
                It's the maple leafs all over again.
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • #23
                  Bendit wrote: View Post
                  While a commendable trait and talent to possess in a coach, the reality is both Red and Popovich have/had great say (if not final say) in the players they draft or trade for...so the acquired talent pool available start at second base sotospeak in terms of incorporation into their system. They follow a tempplate. For the vast majority of teams and the well run orgs. it is the constant communication between coach and the GM that also permits similar results if input in personnel choices are discussed internally so all are on the same page.... which MU has said shall be a pillar of his GMship.
                  Agreed. Red drafted and/or traded for pretty much every player he coached during his career as a coach. Not really a good analogy. Also, times were very different. Back then, players actually deferred to coaches and management, vs. now when players have a great deal more control over their careers.

                  Nowadays, I would argue that a smart GM, if he thinks he has a great coach, needs to provide that coach with players who fit the system being implemented, not build a system to fit the players. It's a lot easier to find players to fit a system role than it is to keep re-designing a system to fit a constantly changing roster.
                  Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                  • #24
                    Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                    Casey has been around for 2 seasons now so undoubtedly he will be overvaluing guys like Rudy, Amir and DeMar Ujiri just got here so he has no gauge to base this value on easier to move players out of ignorance and zero attachment. Any good GM will watch tape and talk to everyone before making moves. Hence why Ujiri may have wanted to rip down this roster to the bones of JV Ross and begin on top of that but hes taking a wait and see approach, if this was next years draft I think Ujiri would be making a complete rebuild move or at the very least if he had picks this year he would be, BC left him in the trap of his fail safe for the most part BCs team will be playing next year because of the limited resources left to Ujiri to change anything.
                    Just a thought re MU's knowledge ("he has no gauge") of the Raptors roster...doesn't every NBA team scout other teams in the league? Some of the better/detailed oriented orgs. have a "book" on each player not only on in-game tendencies but value for any trade opportunities that may come up. As GM of Denver and apart from him having been here before I would think MU would have had a fair and dispassionate view of his current team without of course any of the inside details or "dirt" on any one individual...and even then...he may have.

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                    • #25
                      Bendit wrote: View Post
                      Just a thought re MU's knowledge ("he has no gauge") of the Raptors roster...doesn't every NBA team scout other teams in the league? Some of the better/detailed oriented orgs. have a "book" on each player not only on in-game tendencies but value for any trade opportunities that may come up. As GM of Denver and apart from him having been here before I would think MU would have had a fair and dispassionate view of his current team without of course any of the inside details or "dirt" on any one individual...and even then...he may have.

                      True, true. Not many real secrets in the NBA wrt rosters and talents.
                      Last edited by Puffer; Thu Jun 20, 2013, 06:28 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        **WARNING: RANT AHEAD**

                        Good interview but I can't stand hearing we have enough youth. Enough already. Enough. Please.

                        You need TALENT.

                        TALENT.

                        It does not matter how old the TALENT is.

                        Lets look at the average age of the Raptors: 26.3
                        That is tied for 12th with 2 other teams (one being OKC). 13 teams in the league are as young or younger.
                        The youngest team in the league is Houston - a rising playoff team. Of those 13 teams who are younger, 5 are playoff teams. 1 was a conference finalist. MEM was .1 of a year older and another conference finalist.

                        The Raptors are 13th in experience: 4.3 years.
                        There are 4 playoff teams with LESS experience and one of those teams (4th least experience - Indiana) was a conference finalist.

                        http://en.hispanosnba.com/teams/comparison



                        SO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP WITH THE WE ARE TOO YOUNG!

                        The Raptors are average and they need more TALENT on more cost effective contracts. There are too many average to below average talent on expensive contracts.


                        **END RANT**
                        lol

                        Maybe the rant was heard?

                        lol

                        The Raptors were never able to bridge a need for more offence with the rigid defensive play they delivered in 2011-2012. The Raptors jacked scoring by 7.1 points a game in 2012-2013 but backslid defensively in allowing 8.6 points per game more than the previous season. The Raptors fell from ninth to 14th in points allowed.

                        Casey said he and Ujiri are hunting for veterans or young players who can make the Raptors tougher to play against and said personnel changes are being made among his assistants to reflect the renewed priority of defence.


                        http://blog.raptors.com/casey-eyes-b...etter-defence/

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                        • #27
                          It would appear you can mark Eric Koreen down as a "Maybe" in the informal poll:


                          For the moment, the messages from Casey and Ujiri seem the same. But until there is a little more substance and a track record, that unity can be observed and applauded, but not trusted. Relationships are built over months and years, not over days and weeks.

                          http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...y-masai-ujiri/

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                          • #28
                            I'm pretty sure Casey knows if he doesn't show he's going to be an actually good coach he's gone, and as such will go along with whatever Ujiri says. I don't see Ujiri meddling like BC did but i do see him getting the type of players HE wants and not necessarily Casey's. Basically, i don't see Masai going along with Dwayne's giant throbbing boner for grizzled vets. Like Matt ranted about, he'll get talented players that fit what he wants to do, regardless of age.
                            @sweatpantsjer

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