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Why aren't we going hard in the paint for Eric Bledsoe?

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  • #16
    Primer wrote: View Post
    How about because Kyle Lowry is better than Bledsoe in just about every facet of the game? All this Bledsoe mania never made any sense to me. He is a fine backup PG, and that's it. Let's look at some advanced stats to compare the two.

    WS/48
    Lowry .133
    Bledsoe .115

    TS%
    Lowry .543
    Bledsoe .513

    eFG%
    Lowry .482
    Bledsoe .473

    Ast%
    Lowry 34.6%
    Bledsoe 23.5%

    Ortg
    Lowry 110
    Bledsoe 102

    TRB%
    Lowry 9.5%
    Bledsoe 8.6%

    Drtg
    Lowry 106
    Bledsoe 101

    PER
    Lowry 17.5
    Bledsoe 17.3

    Per 36 Ast/TO ratio
    Lowry 2.79
    Bledsoe 1.69

    Literally the only category that Bledsoe is better than Lowry in is Drtg by a small but appreciable margin. Everything else Lowry trumps him, and he trumps him by a lot in the stats that really matter for PG's (Ast%, Ast/TO ratio). Not to mention this was a poor shooting year for Lowry, yet he still easily outperformed Bledsoe. Also, Bledsoe is also signed for just one more year, so we'd have to resign him to a similar amount we'd have to pay Lowry, so it really is a straight up comparison.

    So, please remind me again why we would want Bledsoe over Lowry in the first place?
    This deserves more than a "like". Great post, Primer.

    Comment


    • #17
      Not that I think we should trade for Bledsoe, but Lowry is entering his 7th season in the league while Bledsoe is entering his 4th. Comparing both their 3rd seasons, and you have:

      WS/48
      Lowry .103
      Bledsoe .115

      TS%
      Lowry .547
      Bledsoe .513

      eFG%
      Lowry .464
      Bledsoe .473

      Ast%
      Lowry 26.4%
      Bledsoe 23.5%

      Ortg
      Lowry 109
      Bledsoe 102

      TRB%
      Lowry 6.8%
      Bledsoe 8.6%

      Drtg
      Lowry 108
      Bledsoe 101

      PER
      Lowry 14.4
      Bledsoe 17.3

      Per 36 Ast/TO ratio
      Lowry 2.36
      Bledsoe 1.69

      Suddenly a lot more comparable. 4 categories now go the other way. Bledsoe is clearly the favorite, but as I said I'm not fully on board with paying for Bledsoe -- much rather trade for PF (and I laugh at the suggestions of what we could do to get Bledsoe and Griffin -- it's not gonna happen. There's a very obvious reason why they were a playoff team and we weren't. We don't have the talent.)
      your pal,
      ebrian

      Comment


      • #18
        Primer wrote: View Post
        How about because Kyle Lowry is better than Bledsoe in just about every facet of the game? All this Bledsoe mania never made any sense to me. He is a fine backup PG, and that's it. Let's look at some advanced stats to compare the two.

        WS/48
        Lowry .133
        Bledsoe .115

        TS%
        Lowry .543
        Bledsoe .513

        eFG%
        Lowry .482
        Bledsoe .473

        Ast%
        Lowry 34.6%
        Bledsoe 23.5%

        Ortg
        Lowry 110
        Bledsoe 102

        TRB%
        Lowry 9.5%
        Bledsoe 8.6%

        Drtg
        Lowry 106
        Bledsoe 101

        PER
        Lowry 17.5
        Bledsoe 17.3

        Per 36 Ast/TO ratio
        Lowry 2.79
        Bledsoe 1.69

        Literally the only category that Bledsoe is better than Lowry in is Drtg by a small but appreciable margin. Everything else Lowry trumps him, and he trumps him by a lot in the stats that really matter for PG's (Ast%, Ast/TO ratio). Not to mention this was a poor shooting year for Lowry, yet he still easily outperformed Bledsoe. Also, Bledsoe is also signed for just one more year, so we'd have to resign him to a similar amount we'd have to pay Lowry, so it really is a straight up comparison.

        So, please remind me again why we would want Bledsoe over Lowry in the first place?

        DRTG should not be used to compare players across teams, atleast not directly.

        Its opposition pts scored per 100 possessions, while said player is on the floor. To put in a simple, although not all together accurate way, teammates account for 80% of a players DRTG.

        It is useful for making comparison to the team itself (was he a net negative or positive) and across teammates.

        Comment


        • #19
          ebrian wrote: View Post
          Not that I think we should trade for Bledsoe, but Lowry is entering his 7th season in the league while Bledsoe is entering his 4th. Comparing both their 3rd seasons, and you have:

          WS/48
          Lowry .103
          Bledsoe .115

          TS%
          Lowry .547
          Bledsoe .513

          eFG%
          Lowry .464
          Bledsoe .473

          Ast%
          Lowry 26.4%
          Bledsoe 23.5%

          Ortg
          Lowry 109
          Bledsoe 102

          TRB%
          Lowry 6.8%
          Bledsoe 8.6%

          Drtg
          Lowry 108
          Bledsoe 101

          PER
          Lowry 14.4
          Bledsoe 17.3

          Per 36 Ast/TO ratio
          Lowry 2.36
          Bledsoe 1.69

          Suddenly a lot more comparable. 4 categories now go the other way. Bledsoe is clearly the favorite, but as I said I'm not fully on board with paying for Bledsoe -- much rather trade for PF (and I laugh at the suggestions of what we could do to get Bledsoe and Griffin -- it's not gonna happen. There's a very obvious reason why they were a playoff team and we weren't. We don't have the talent.)
          Even with you cherry picking seasons, which makes pretty much no sense since we'd have to pay both guys about the same after this year when their contracts are up, Lowry still dominates in the categories that matter for a PG (ast%, and ast/to ratio). He also has a much better Ortg and TS%.
          Why exactly do you like Bledsoe? How is he anything more than a backup PG with a weak Ast/TO ratio?
          Considering we already have Lowry, and we'd have to give up assets to get Bledsoe, and Bledsoe is the inferior player, I really don't see any reason at all to try and trade for him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Craiger wrote: View Post
            DRTG should not be used to compare players across teams, atleast not directly.

            Its opposition pts scored per 100 possessions, while said player is on the floor. To put in a simple, although not all together accurate way, teammates account for 80% of a players DRTG.

            It is useful for making comparison to the team itself (was he a net negative or positive) and across teammates.
            I worked with the best stat available. If you have a preferred stat to compare defensive performance then by all means please add that comparison to the discussion.

            The other site I like for defensive comparisons is 82games and opponent counterpart PER.

            Lowry 15.6
            Bledsoe 14.9

            So similar to above, Bledsoe is a slightly better defender. Not nearly enough to offset how much worse he is on the offensive end, both scoring and passing.
            Last edited by Primer; Tue Jun 25, 2013, 06:51 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              ceez wrote: View Post
              Word is the clips are shopping Bledsoe pretty hard, looking for a sg, don't we have a sg we'd be more than willing to part with for a future starter at PG?

              Doesn't Rivers LOVE Derozen supposedly? Was he just blowing smoke up our chimney? Is there a trade to be had here? why am i speaking in questions?
              "Hard in the paint"? is that a sex thing?
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

              Comment


              • #22
                LBF wrote: View Post
                "Hard in the paint"? is that a sex thing?
                It's a wocka flocka flame thing.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Primer wrote: View Post
                  It's a wocka flocka flame thing.
                  a whodda whadda wherdda?
                  If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                  Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    LBF wrote: View Post
                    "Hard in the paint"? is that a sex thing?
                    It can be applied to everything bro. Masai Ujiri goes hard in the paint

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Primer wrote: View Post
                      Even with you cherry picking seasons, which makes pretty much no sense since we'd have to pay both guys about the same after this year when their contracts are up, Lowry still dominates in the categories that matter for a PG (ast%, and ast/to ratio). He also has a much better Ortg and TS%.

                      Why exactly do you like Bledsoe? How is he anything more than a backup PG with a weak Ast/TO ratio?
                      Considering we already have Lowry, and we'd have to give up assets to get Bledsoe, and Bledsoe is the inferior player, I really don't see any reason at all to try and trade for him.
                      As I said, I don't see any reason at all to try to trade for him either. Both are backup point guards in the NBA. One is 3 years younger and already as good as the other, but again, they're both backups. Throw Bledsoe on a non-playoff team and he'd start as many games as Lowry did and post similar numbers.
                      your pal,
                      ebrian

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Primer wrote: View Post
                        I worked with the best stat available. If you have a preferred stat to compare defensive performance then by all means please add that comparison to the discussion.

                        The other site I like for defensive comparisons is 82games and opponent counterpart PER.

                        Lowry 15.6
                        Bledsoe 14.9

                        So similar to above, Bledsoe is a slightly better defender. Not nearly enough to offset how much worse he is on the offensive end, both scoring and passing.
                        I like net off/def rtg and net on/off court points as well.

                        Not perfect but all help paint a picture.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          ebrian wrote: View Post
                          As I said, I don't see any reason at all to try to trade for him either. Both are backup point guards in the NBA. One is 3 years younger and already as good as the other, but again, they're both backups. Throw Bledsoe on a non-playoff team and he'd start as many games as Lowry did and post similar numbers.
                          Yeah I don't get the Bledsoe love. He is a starter talent but that is about it. Like Jose he is a great backup though.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            ebrian wrote: View Post
                            As I said, I don't see any reason at all to try to trade for him either. Both are backup point guards in the NBA. One is 3 years younger and already as good as the other, but again, they're both backups. Throw Bledsoe on a non-playoff team and he'd start as many games as Lowry did and post similar numbers.
                            That is where I vehemently disagree with you. At this point, as evidenced by this past season, Lowry is a much better PG than Bledsoe.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              I like net off/def rtg and net on/off court points as well.

                              Not perfect but all help paint a picture.
                              On/off court comparisons are especially brutal to Bledsoe considering when he was off the court Chris Paul was on it, so I avoided using those.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Primer wrote: View Post
                                I worked with the best stat available. If you have a preferred stat to compare defensive performance then by all means please add that comparison to the discussion.

                                The other site I like for defensive comparisons is 82games and opponent counterpart PER.

                                Lowry 15.6
                                Bledsoe 14.9

                                So similar to above, Bledsoe is a slightly better defender. Not nearly enough to offset how much worse he is on the offensive end, both scoring and passing.
                                Wasn't trying to knock your information, just sometimes the way people use DRTG can be mistaken.

                                A few others that are useable would be:

                                defensive on/off
                                Bledsoe: -4.9
                                Lowry: -0.3

                                Player Drtg - Team Drtg
                                Bledsoe: -2.6
                                Lowry: -1.5

                                DWS/48 (think I did this right, but rushed it cause I don't think people will care that much)
                                Bledsoe: 0.127
                                Lowry: 0.071

                                The way I see it, Lowry is a better offensive player and Bledsoe a better defensive player. However, the difference between Lowry's better offense > than Bledsoe better defense. (does that make sense?)

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