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Raptors To Use Amnesty Clause on Kleiza

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  • #16
    If Bargs can be moved, so can Klieza might not have to Amnesty him if we're lucky Fields can board a a bus out of town too.

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    • #17
      tucas wrote: View Post
      Assuming Raptors don't waive Lowry they will be close to the Luxury tax. If they use the MLE and the bi annual exception they will be over. With harsh penalties for the tax kicking in, amnestying Kleiza really saves an additional 3 million(roughly) dollars out of MLSE pockets. Even thouh TL has said they will pay into the tax, why bother if you have a useless player you can drop and avoid the tax?
      More importantly, not paying tax this year buys them another year before the repeater rate kicks in. Staying under the tax this year is important for flexibility a few years down the road.

      Another factor affecting our financial flexibility is that because we acquired a player via sign-and-trade (Richardson), the apron ($4 million above the tax line, or $75.6) becomes a hard cap for the remainder of the season.

      I haven't seen the dollars on Richardson's contract (are those out yet?), but we should be about $2 million below the tax line without amnestying Kleiza or stretching Fields. If we used our full MLE, that brings us right up against that hard cap, and we probably wouldn't have room to use much of the bi-annual.
      Last edited by octothorp; Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:06 PM.

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      • #18
        IF he is finally healthy, Kleiza does have value. I know it can take a while for a player to return to form but I bet if he proves he is healthy someone will take him for something.

        IF we are tanking, playing Kleiza 20+ minutes and inflating his value is a great way to kill two birds with one stone
        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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        • #19
          thead wrote: View Post
          who cares if we pay tax though, if we end up getting ANYTHING for Kleiza by the trade deadline it's not like the tax limits our flexibility or that WE pay it
          What's funny about the trade deadline is that there is a tonne of excitement, but nothing ever happens. Teams seem to be to scared to make moves during the season anymore.

          In theory having Kleiza's contract as an expiring is good if you can get an asset.. but in my opinion if we can't get an asset this summer (before July 17 as that is when the amnesty period ends) he should be amnestied. It can open the door for a full MLE which I think is a better asset then whatever you could get for Kleiza later on.

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          • #20
            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            In theory, I completely agree. I don't see the point of using amnesty on an expiring contract, unless to achieve one/both of the following:

            - roster spot desperately needed (ie: to sign free agent or to facilitate trade)
            - to avoid luxury tax, however...



            When is luxury tax calculated? I recall teams like the Bulls last year looking to make deadline deals, in part to avoid being a tax team. If Kleiza is kept until the deadline (with the team salary into luxury tax) then dealt, won't they avoid luxury tax? They could always trade Kleiza to a team with cap space, along with enough cash to pay his 2nd half salary (approx. $2.3M), if an actual positive trade doesn't come to fruition. I'd rather maintain the trade asset whenever possible.



            By my calculation, the following players are under contract for 2013-14, as of today:
            1. Valanciunas
            2. Gray
            3. Camby
            4. Johnson
            5. Novak
            6. Acy
            7. Gay
            8. Fields
            9. Kleiza
            10. Richardson
            11. DeRozan
            12. Ross
            13. Lowry (non-guaranteed)

            That leaves the Raptors with 2 roster spots
            - only 1 PG on the roster
            - only 1 true PF on the roster
            The day of the last regular season game.

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            • #21
              planetmars wrote: View Post
              but in my opinion if we can't get an asset this summer (before July 17 as that is when the amnesty period ends) he should be amnestied.
              This goes back to the retool vs rebuild debate. I think if we are blowing it up, starting him at PF this season has a number of benefits.
              For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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              • #22
                thead wrote: View Post
                IF he is finally healthy, Kleiza does have value. I know it can take a while for a player to return to form but I bet if he proves he is healthy someone will take him for something.

                IF we are tanking, playing Kleiza 20+ minutes and inflating his value is a great way to kill two birds with one stone
                And with what minutes do we showcase a healthy Kleiza? We have DD, Ross, Gay, Fields, and Novak all deserving of more minutes. If Kleiza starts the season in a raps uniform he will rot on the bench. His value now will likely be his value in february. He is NOT a trade asset. He IS however a tax liability. The most he will be worth is a 2nd round pick and the chances we get a fringe rotation player out of a 2nd rounder are slim to none. Dump his ass now and avoid paying any tax at all this season and avoid paying the repeaters penalty in the future.

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                • #23
                  tucas wrote: View Post
                  And with what minutes do we showcase a healthy Kleiza? We have DD, Ross, Gay, Fields, and Novak all deserving of more minutes. If Kleiza starts the season in a raps uniform he will rot on the bench. His value now will likely be his value in february. He is NOT a trade asset. He IS however a tax liability. The most he will be worth is a 2nd round pick and the chances we get a fringe rotation player out of a 2nd rounder are slim to none. Dump his ass now and avoid paying any tax at all this season and avoid paying the repeaters penalty in the future.
                  But the only way you get a 2nd round pick is if you take on salary that goes beyond this upcoming season.

                  Kleiza was one of my favourite players for a while but that knee injury killed his NBA career. It is super unfortunate as I think, if healthy, he would have very much earned every penny of that contract.

                  Now? Amnesty him and move on. The Raptors get a lot more breathing room with exceptions and/or trades while Kleiza can go back to Europe where I am sure he can still have a meaningful impact as a PF.

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                  • #24
                    planetmars wrote: View Post
                    What's funny about the trade deadline is that there is a tonne of excitement, but nothing ever happens. Teams seem to be to scared to make moves during the season anymore.
                    It's more to do with the fact that contending teams looking for additional pieces are very concerned about maintaining team chemistry. Big trades late in the season can fuck things up easily that way.

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                    • #25
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      The day of the last regular season game.
                      Thanks Matt, that's what I thought. Even if the Raps have a team salary into luxury tax during the first half of the season, they could look to shed salary at the deadline, whether that's Kleiza and/or others.

                      I think the entire discussion is a moot point right now though, as I doubt that MU is finished with roster moves. However, if Kleiza's contract is the only difference between Toronto being a luxury tax and non-luxury tax team, then I'd be willing to carry his contract up to the deadline in hopes of using him as a trade asset.

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                      • #26
                        The most he will be worth is a 2nd round pick and the chances we get a fringe rotation player out of a 2nd rounder are slim to none.Dump his ass now and avoid paying any tax at all this season and avoid paying the repeaters penalty in the future.
                        I would take a fringe rotation player over nothing.

                        Give him 15 minutes at PF and 5 at SF. Again this would be a tanking scenario and we would be attempting to inflate value.

                        All we need to do to avoid the repeater tax is not be in the tax next year.

                        and finally who gives a shit if we pay tax. MLSE doesn't, and it's not like it comes out of our pockets.
                        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                        • #27
                          worry about the tax is teachers pension plan thinking.
                          For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                          • #28
                            thead wrote: View Post
                            I would take a fringe rotation player over nothing.

                            Give him 15 minutes at PF and 5 at SF. Again this would be a tanking scenario and we would be attempting to inflate value.

                            All we need to do to avoid the repeater tax is not be in the tax next year.

                            and finally who gives a shit if we pay tax. MLSE doesn't, and it's not like it comes out of our pockets.
                            No. MLSE wouldnt mind paying the tax if we were becoming a better team. Why pay the tax just so you can keep LINAS KLEIZA and potentially get a pick for him at the deadline. Also they wouldnt be getting nothing by amnestying him. They keep 2 million dollars in their pockets saved from tax. 2 million dollars in your pocket> 2nd rounder

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                            • #29
                              tucas wrote: View Post
                              2 million dollars in your pocket> 2nd rounder
                              If that is all we get, 2 million dollars in their pockets does nothing. Its MLSE profit. It doesn't increase the amount of cash we put into transactions in order to make them work. A second rounder means potential. If it doesn't effect our exceptions I would still rather get something than nothing.
                              For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                              • #30
                                Since MU was able to recover something of value for AB, I think he could wheel and deal out LK rather than Amnesty.

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