Xixak wrote:
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Raptors Sign Austin Daye
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Bendit wrote: View PostI would argue that Houston, Boston had bases before topping off with DH in Houston and KG and Allen in Boston. Miami of course had Wade before pulling off a "heist" that necessitated a CBA change. The Lakers always had Kobe since I can remember and cared not about the CAP. San Antonio as well added Duncan when they had a pretty good team with Robinson. We are in a new CBA era (onerous taxes) and also in effect starting a remake of the roster (as I see it). Going for the top dog before you have the support structure is not only not wise but unattainable...no f/a worth it would sign up under those circumstances.
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Bendit wrote: View PostI would argue that Houston, Boston had bases before topping off with DH in Houston and KG and Allen in Boston. Miami of course had Wade before pulling off a "heist" that necessitated a CBA change. The Lakers always had Kobe since I can remember and cared not about the CAP. San Antonio as well added Duncan when they had a pretty good team with Robinson. We are in a new CBA era (onerous taxes) and also in effect starting a remake of the roster (as I see it). Going for the top dog before you have the support structure is not only not wise but unattainable...no f/a worth it would sign up under those circumstances.
Yeah let's trade away all our good players for whatever we can get then tank.
Oh CRAP we didnt get a top 3 pick! And... he isnt a superstar... he isnt even an all-star.... this guy isn't even better than Rudy Gay...
Inb4 someone says I'm exaggerating, but that's much more likely to happen than drafting a superstar. Just ask Minnesota or Sacramento what it's like to get raped by the lottery year after year.
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planetmars wrote: View PostMaybe the Raptors already have that top player in JV? Let's say JV explodes and becomes a 20/10 guy in his prime. Would a top free agent want to play with someone like him?
I'm trying to not to create an argument for tanking/contending since this is an Austin Daye thread, but I do think that JV could attract high level talent to play with him and/or MU could poach top talent in a trade using the assets he's accumulating from a small market team that needs to rebuild all over again.
For the Boston analogy you could say JV is Pierce, and their 2014 draft pick will be Rondo.
I said last summer I'd be thrilled with 8/6. Year two 15/8 would be amazing with breakout party for year three.
Also not trying to get in to tank conversation but few teams start with a building block like JV already on the roster.
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Craig wrote: View PostNot that I care much about Colangelo, I do find it interesting how NOTHING this new guy does is looked upon poorly, everything he has done, people try to find some way to make it a "brilliant move".
You got guys saying "tank or no tank", others talking about Toronto "finally headed in the right direction".
All that is happening is yet another complete reset. Except. there is one real issue here, there is enough talent iin he starting five to make resetting more difficult.
The way I'm seeing it, MU is banking on having the option to either draft Wiggans, or, cut a crap load of salary by waiving non-guaranteed guys to trade acquired picks or stiffs to whoever has the #1 pick, thus allowing them to draft wiggans, yet have room to take on some horrid albatross of a contract from that team.
Big ifs, but not all bad really.
Time will tell. But honestly, MU is signing stiffs like mad right now in hopes of a true dive.
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Xixak wrote: View PostBoom. People need to start understanding this.
Yeah let's trade away all our good players for whatever we can get then tank.
Oh CRAP we didnt get a top 3 pick! And... he isnt a superstar... he isnt even an all-star.... this guy isn't even better than Rudy Gay...
Inb4 someone says I'm exaggerating, but that's much more likely to happen than drafting a superstar. Just ask Minnesota or Sacramento what it's like to get raped by the lottery year after year.
Again it all comes back to your mindset if a 7/8th seed is a ceiling or a stepping stone for this team.
In coming to your conclusion you have to factor internal growth, CBA hurdles, market, etc.
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Mediumcore wrote: View PostThis is why I'm as impressed as I am with what Morey had done in Houston. He understands there is no winning in the NBA (championship anyways) without elite level talent. And he managed to leverage all of his assets to acquire that talent starting from scratch (no Wade or Kobe to attract free agents). Imo, this is what all teams should be doing unless they are happy with a 50 win team without a shot at a championship. Don't get me wrong, as a Raptor fan this isn't the worst thing in the world, however it's short sighted.
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Xixak wrote: View PostBoom. People need to start understanding this.
Yeah let's trade away all our good players for whatever we can get then tank.
Oh CRAP we didnt get a top 3 pick! And... he isnt a superstar... he isnt even an all-star.... this guy isn't even better than Rudy Gay...
Inb4 someone says I'm exaggerating, but that's much more likely to happen than drafting a superstar. Just ask Minnesota or Sacramento what it's like to get raped by the lottery year after year.
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Bendit wrote: View PostI confess confusion. Morey did build his base first (trading his assets for picks mostly), then trading some picks and assets for a bigger fish (Harden) and signing lower tier f/as (Asik, Lin eg) solidifying his base and now topping off with Howard. I thought you do not prefer the bottom-up approach for the Raptors which I believe MU is in the process of enacting. As he has already said, this is not going to be a quick turnaround....unless something magical occurs.
So what I'm saying is if Ujiri wants to use the Houston model he needs to keep what he wants and sell off the rest for picks, cap space and young prospects.Last edited by Mediumcore; Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:39 PM.
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c_bcm wrote: View PostWould you rather have Daye, or Jamaal Magloire? Because we are talking about the same spot on the bench.@Chr1st1anL
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Bendit wrote: View PostI confess confusion. Morey did build his base first (trading his assets for picks mostly), then trading some picks and assets for a bigger fish (Harden) and signing lower tier f/as (Asik, Lin eg) solidifying his base and now topping off with Howard. I thought you do not prefer the bottom-up approach for the Raptors which I believe MU is in the process of enacting. As he has already said, this is not going to be a quick turnaround....unless something magical occurs.
First, despite continuous 1st round exits, he never unloaded his best players (Yao, T-Mac), but lost them both to injury. Despite that, he never decided to bottom out. He kept chasing FAs, never getting elite ones, because they weren't interested in shit-town Houston. He did manage to get Lowry, then Dragic, both of which he unloaded/ let walk the same year, to go and overpay for Lin and Asik. He wanted Bosh from the Raps, but Bosh wouldn't agree to an extension. He chased Gasol. He chased Howard (round 1).
His draft picks have generally been horrid (eg. Royce White?????), while he traded his best pick (Batum) for a couple of scrubs, before Batum saw the floor for them.
All the while, he kept the team "competitive", at least as far as chasing playoffs, not lottery picks. Man, that team was floundering in no man's land, and the Lin & Asik deals were evidence of his desperation.
He just got very lucky that Presti had a brain fart and made a bad deal unloading Harden for bit parts: K-Mart for half a year, Lamb, Jones, a 12th pick in a historically weak draft.
There's even more to the story, but NOTHING about the desperate attempt after desperate attempt, and poor draft pick after poor draft pick of Morey and Houston is anywhere close to a shining example to follow. He got very lucky with Harden, period.Last edited by p00ka; Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:56 PM.
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p00ka wrote: View PostI'm confused any time someone tries to use Morey and Houston as a shining example of great plan *shaking head*, particularly as some sort of justification for unloading best players and bottoming out for high picks. None of which is remotely close to what he did, or even tried.
First, despite continuous 1st round exits, he never unloaded his best players (Yao, T-Mac), but lost them both to injury. Despite that, he never decided to bottom out. He kept chasing FAs, never getting elite ones, because they weren't interested in shit-town Houston. He did manage to get Lowry, then Dragic, both of which he unloaded/ let walk the same year, to go and overpay for Lin and Asik. He wanted Bosh from the Raps, but Bosh wouldn't agree to an extension. He chased Gasol. He chased Howard (round 1).
His draft picks have generally been horrid (eg. Royce White?????), while he traded his best pick (Batum) for a couple of scrubs, before Batum saw the floor for them.
All the while, he kept the team "competitive", at least as far as chasing playoffs, not lottery picks. Man, that team was floundering in no man's land, and the Lin & Asik deals were evidence of his desperation.
He just got very lucky that Presti had a brain fart and made a bad deal unloading Harden for bit parts: K-Mart for half a year, Lamb, Jones, a 12th pick in a historically weak draft.
There's even more to the story, but NOTHING about the desperate attempt after desperate attempt, and poor draft pick after poor draft pick of Morey and Houston is anywhere close to a shining example to follow. He got very lucky with Harden, period.
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