Signs Of Tanking?

[p00ka]

I hesitate to wade into this, but this Xixak / Matt52 kerfuffle started with a reasonable question about a specific statement made by a self-professed nit-picker, started to blow up when a virtual non-responsive brush-off was given as a reply, then several ganged up and went after Xixak scoffing at him not understanding what wasn't said. Sad to say that school yard gang-ups happen here when simple and clear answers aren't given to simple and clear questions. Matt52, as a self-professed nit-picker yourself, why didn't you just answer the guy's question with something other than a somewhat snotty brush-off?

[enlightenment]

[blockquote]They have gotten Tristan Thompson with the 4th pick in 2011, Waiters 4th in 2012 and now Bennett 1st in 2013. None of these players appear to have anything close to star potential.[/blockquote]

Thompson is a very strong young power forward who still has upside for development, probably maxing out at the "borderline All Star" level. Bennett clearly has star potential (whether or not he lives up to it is a judgement call). Waiters is the question mark and probably the worst pick of the three, and he's still not a bad pick per se; Harrison Barnes or Andre Drummond just would have been better for Cleveland, and a lot of teams were worried about Barnes' confidence and maturity at the time, ditto Drummond (which is why they both slid). You're selling Cleveland's picks short, frankly.

Imagine Cleveland picked Harrison Barnes instead, and Jonas instead.

Irving
Miles
Barnes
Bennett
Jonas

+ Cody Zeller

[BobLoblaw]

At the time, a lot of people thought the Spurs were tanking. That's how the Bob Hill firing was interpreted by many fans. They started poorly but that hardly was Hill's fault, most of their starters (including Robinson) were injured.

Bob Hill was considered a great coach, and they went from him to a guy with no head coaching experience (Pops) right before David Robinson was supposed to come back from injury.

As it turns out, in hindsight, Pops became one of the greatest coaches of all time. Besides, none of it would've mattered because David Robinson got injured again, soon after he got back. So their season was done either way.

But at the time, it looked like "Oh hell no, we are probably out of the playoffs anyway, Hill/Robinson will just get us to 30 wins now, no chance at Tim Duncan or Keith Van Horn. Lets fire the coach."

In the end, it's hard to say one way or the other. It could easily be that Popovich simply didn't like Bob Hill for some reason, or wanted to coach, or wanted to change the Spurs identity and happened to pick that moment. Maybe he was afraid that if he waits and Bob Hill turns the season around that year with a healthy Robinson, he wouldn't be able to fire Hill.

Who knows. It's all just speculation. A lot of people suspected a tank at the time, and those questions won't go away. Besides, people had a reason to be suspicious: the Spurs tanked to get David Robinson, so it was natural to assume they were back to their old tricks.

[Chr1s1anL]

We don't know if JV is a sure fire all-star yet. We shouldn't put all our eggs in a basket. Start tanking. If JV is that good than he should make thanking extremely hard than.

[mcHAPPY]

I hesitate to wade into this, but this Xixak / Matt52 kerfuffle started with a reasonable question about a specific statement made by a self-professed nit-picker, started to blow up when a virtual non-responsive brush-off was given as a reply, then several ganged up and went after Xixak scoffing at him not understanding what wasn't said. Sad to say that school yard gang-ups happen here when simple and clear answers aren't given to simple and clear questions. Matt52, as a self-professed nit-picker yourself, why didn't you just answer the guy's question with something other than a somewhat snotty brush-off?

Good question.

I thought it was clear. I directed him to my response. There had been a couple of instances where he either twisted replies in to something that was not said or he ignored a post that answered another. There comes a point in time when you have someone always attempting to take out your legs you take a stand.

This was another example of him twisting an argument in to something that was not said. His interpretation was incorrect. Was my wording off? Possibly if you look at the context of one sentence. If you look at the context of the paragraph and post, then I would say no. The fact other posters understood exactly what I meant because they did not focus on one word in one sentence is kind of telling.

Your school yard gang-ups is an interesting analogy. But what happens if that school yard gang up is a result of the distracting/annoying/disrespectful kid finally being put in his place by the frustrated classmates who continually have to deal with his disturbances during class and teases/taunts/annoyances during recess, lunch, in the halls, and on the bus? If you are going to continually be an ass to others on the playground (or forums) don't be surprised when it comes right back at you. I know I am opinionated and arrogant in my views. The difference, in my opinion, is I'm not attempting to belittle anyone questioning their intelligence/knowledge or attempting to undermine them with statements beginning and ending in "dude" and "bro" - well, one exception.

[BobLoblaw]

Thompson is a very strong young power forward who still has upside for development, probably maxing out at the "borderline All Star" level. Bennett clearly has star potential (whether or not he lives up to it is a judgement call). Waiters is the question mark and probably the worst pick of the three, and he's still not a bad pick per se; Harrison Barnes or Andre Drummond just would have been better for Cleveland, and a lot of teams were worried about Barnes' confidence and maturity at the time, ditto Drummond (which is why they both slid). You're selling Cleveland's picks short, frankly.

I kind of like the Waiters pick if not for character question marks. In terms of talent and how he could fit with Kyrie (if he reaches his potential) he makes a lot of sense. But if you are going to pick a risky guy with character question marks, why not go for the most talented one (Drummond). It's a curious choice.

Either way, neither of their rookies are even in their 3rd season yet, so it's too early to judge.

[planetmars]

We don't know if JV is a sure fire all-star yet. We shouldn't put all our eggs in a basket. Start tanking. If JV is that good than he should make thanking extremely hard than.

The problem with that is if he is so good then he may get disgruntled playing on a bad team. He's so young right now that I don't think it matters if we produce a losing team for one more year... however if you wait 1 or 2 years and lose again then he may want to leave as an RFA (they can match but he might be disgruntled which is always a bad thing).

*EDIT - whoops.. should have read your post more carefully.. If we tank and JV is as good as advertised then it could be bad from a tanking perspective .. and I think that might be partly why MU wants to look at the team and consider tanking/contending after so many games.

[mcHAPPY]

We don't know if JV is a sure fire all-star yet. We shouldn't put all our eggs in a basket. Start tanking. If JV is that good than he should make thanking extremely hard than.

HE is still young and inexperienced though. He only makes tanking extremely hard if you put the kind of veterans Toronto currently has around him (Gay, Lowry, Amir, DD).

Even a superstar like Durant still struggled for 2 years and the Durant/Westbrook combo had a tough one year as well.

[JimiCliff]

The problem with that is if he is so good then he may get disgruntled playing on a bad team. He's so young right now that I don't think it matters if we produce a losing team for one more year... however if you wait 1 or 2 years and lose again then he may want to leave as an RFA (they can match but he might be disgruntled which is always a bad thing).

I'm not worried about that. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders, he has a sense of humour, he's known to be a hard worker, he genuinely loves the game (which is apparently much more rare than you'd think in the case of big men)...plus there's the element of the city of Toronto possibly being an advantage for once, given that it's more like Lithuania than certainly any West Coast city.

I think as long as he senses that there's some sort of plan, that there's something coming together, then he'll be happy here.

[mcHAPPY]

I'm not worried about that. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders, he has a sense of humour, he's known to be a hard worker, he genuinely loves the game (which is apparently much more rare than you'd think in the case of big men)...plus there's the element of the city of Toronto possibly being an advantage for once, given that it's more like Lithuania than certainly any West Coast city.

I think as long as he senses that there's some sort of plan, that there's something coming together, then he'll be happy here.

I'm inclined to agree with you but the first member of Raptor DancePak he knocks up* I'm going to be questioning all that.

*reference to straight laced, hard working, Christian value Dwight Howard who within a few years in Orlando had a baby with a Magic cheerleader - the rest as we say is history

[mcHAPPY]

Maybe the Raptors are just an ugly guy who eventually gets the pretty girl?

“We were sort of the ugly guy chasing the pretty girl for awhile,” Morey told Feinstein. “We [had tried] to trade for him twice. In fact, once we were allowed to talk to Dwight when free agency started off, he told us how – and we didn't know this for sure – but how Orlando basically told him he was going to get traded to us if he didn't re-up with them a couple years back when he resigned. He was almost a Rocket a couple times. Obviously in this business, you've got to be well-prepared, and you have to have some good fortune.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ke...after-decision

[Chr1s1anL]

You just can't let a kid that plays that hard every possession. Playing to lose every game. With the way he plays. Losing could effect him poorly.

[Xixak]

You just can't let a kid that plays that hard every possession. Playing to lose every game. With the way he plays. Losing could effect him poorly.

Who are you talking about right now? Jonas?

[Chr1s1anL]

Who are you talking about right now? Jonas?

Yes, I'm talking about how this tanking bullshit isn't right.

[NoPropsneeded]

Who are you talking about right now? Jonas?

No, Jesus