ESPN 5-on-5: Rudy Gay most Overrated Small Forward.

[d749]

Demar isn't that inefficient. Didn't he shoot like 45%. Not bad at sg

[Craiger]

I don't believe that these five independently arrived at Rudy Gay. To me, Rudy Gay is not overrated because overrated implies that people think highly of him when in fact he shouldn't be highly thought off. The problem with Gay is that he's simply overpaid. By a lot. Nobody has an inflated opinion of Rudy Gay (well, BC did) therefore you can't say that he's overrated.

I think it ends up being a debate of semantics.

What does 'overrated' mean? Whats 'fairly' rated? How do we define either?

Considering Gay has yet to collect any NBA hardware (all nba, allstar etc) I don't think we can say he has been rated to highly around the league.

At the same time someone thought he was worth paying approx 18 mil a year, and someone else though he was worth trading for despite that contract, while also talking about him as if he was an elite player. In that sense he has been overrated.

Fans can easily go either way - doesn't take much research to find Raps fans who talk about him as elite level player and/or a top5 player at his position. Also doesn't take much to find someone going the other way.

Personally I think he is a good player that has yet proven to be, and unlikely to be, good enough to be a team's #1 option, whose paid and plays a style like he is.

[Craiger]

Demar isn't that inefficient. Didn't he shoot like 45%. Not bad at sg

In terms of actual shooting, Demar is rather inefficient. In terms of using a possession he is above average.



Not sure that helps anything, but its probably more informative than a debate about who can and can't say....

[Xixak]

I don't believe that these five independently arrived at Rudy Gay. To me, Rudy Gay is not overrated because overrated implies that people think highly of him when in fact he shouldn't be highly thought off. The problem with Gay is that he's simply overpaid. By a lot. Nobody has an inflated opinion of Rudy Gay (well, BC did) therefore you can't say that he's overrated.

I don't even think BC overrated him. I mean the guy got traded for Ed Davis and Austin Daye (Calderon went to Detroit).

Demar isn't that inefficient. Didn't he shoot like 45%. Not bad at sg

Yep that's a pretty respectable percentage. Not everyone is as efficient as Wade, LBJ and KD...

I think it ends up being a debate of semantics.

What does 'overrated' mean? Whats 'fairly' rated? How do we define either?

Considering Gay has yet to collect any NBA hardware (all nba, allstar etc) I don't think we can say he has been rated to highly around the league.

At the same time someone thought he was worth paying approx 18 mil a year, and someone else though he was worth trading for despite that contract, while also talking about him as if he was an elite player. In that sense he has been overrated.

Fans can easily go either way - doesn't take much research to find Raps fans who talk about him as elite level player and/or a top5 player at his position. Also doesn't take much to find someone going the other way.

Personally I think he is a good player that has yet proven to be, and unlikely to be, good enough to be a team's #1 option, whose paid and plays a style like he is.

No they didn't think he was worth 18M a year. That's just what it cost to not lose him for nothing.

[Superjudge]

Yep that's a pretty respectable percentage. Not everyone is as efficient as Wade, LBJ and KD...



No they didn't think he was worth 18M a year. That's just what it cost to not lose him for nothing.

Such a key post.

In anything, it is always important to truly know the difference between worth and cost.

In Pro sports, it happens to be that more often than not, depending upon the situation, players WORTH X, are often players that COST Y.

[Xixak]

Such a key post.

In anything, it is always important to truly know the difference between worth and cost.

In Pro sports, it happens to be that more often than not, depending upon the situation, players WORTH X, are often players that COST Y.

Yep this. It's really rare to see a player get paid what they're worth. Most players are either underpaid (LBJ & KD, stars on rookie deals, or players who take a paycut to play for a great team - Ray Allen for example) or they are overpaid (plenty of examples of this).

Usually the only time you get a player for fair value is by giving them an extension that's too large, and then they play their way up to its value (Amir Johnson and Jrue Holiday are examples of this).

[Craiger]

Such a key post.

In anything, it is always important to truly know the difference between worth and cost.

In Pro sports, it happens to be that more often than not, depending upon the situation, players WORTH X, are often players that COST Y.

If you 'pay to keep him', you are still paying him regardless.

It doesn't change anything.

Someone thought he 'was worth keeping at a price of $18 mil' a year = someone though he was 'worth paying 18 mil'

[Xixak]

If you 'pay to keep him', you are still paying him regardless.

It doesn't change anything.

Someone thought he 'was worth keeping at a price of $18 mil' a year = someone though he was 'worth paying 18 mil'

No it doesn't mean the same thing.

The first phrase means that you're willing to pay 18M to keep him because you know other teams are willing to pay that and it's better than losing him for nothing.

The second means you're willing to pay him 18M regardless of what other offers he's getting.

Do you even English?

[BobLoblaw]

No it doesn't mean the same thing.

The first phrase means that you're willing to pay 18M to keep him because you know other teams are willing to pay that and it's better than losing him for nothing.

The second means you're willing to pay him 18M regardless of what other offers he's getting.

Do you even English?

They are the Memphis Grizzlies. They didn't wait to see what other offers he would get. They gave him the absolute max offer on the first night they could. They did a similar thing with ZBO. One of those franchises that bid against themselves.

They absolutely thought he'd be a franchise player. That's the only sense in what they did. They could've waited and matched a smaller offer from someone else. No other team was capable of giving Gay quite as much as they did. They just wanted to show their unconditional love to their franchise player.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that Gay is overrated now. This happened years ago. But Memphis did have massive expectations.

[Xixak]

They are the Memphis Grizzlies. They didn't wait to see what other offers he would get. They gave him the absolute max offer on the first night they could. They did a similar thing with ZBO. One of those franchises that bid against themselves.

They absolutely thought he'd be a franchise player. That's the only sense in what they did. They could've waited and matched a smaller offer from someone else. No other team was capable of giving Gay quite as much as they did. They just wanted to show their unconditional love to their franchise player.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that Gay is overrated now. This happened years ago. But Memphis did have massive expectations.

What on earth... There were rumors the Nets would max him all offseason, the Clippers were also in that conversation. And they WOULD have considering they both struck out on every other major FA.

In an offseason where a 29 year old Joe Johnson (21ppg, 4.9apg, 4.6apg on 46-37-82 shooting) got 6yr/$120M. You think a 23 year old Rudy Gay (19.6ppg, 1.9apg, 5.9rpg on 47-33-75 shooting) wouldn't have gotten 5yr/$82M from some other team? What planet do you live on?

[Craiger]

No it doesn't mean the same thing.

The first phrase means that you're willing to pay 18M to keep him because you know other teams are willing to pay that and it's better than losing him for nothing.

The second means you're willing to pay him 18M regardless of what other offers he's getting.

Do you even English?

ummm what?

They paid him 18 mil - therefore they thought he was worth paying 18 mil. The reason or rational for doing it doesn't matter (someone else would pay that, he would produce at a rate of 18 mil a year, he such a swell guy he deserves alot of money, whatever.)

When you pay X dollars for anything, you pay X dollars because you believe its worth it. Even if you intentionally overpay, you are still doing it because the net difference has a utility or function thats greater to you than something else you could do with that money.

[Xixak]

ummm what?

They paid him 18 mil - therefore they thought he was worth paying 18 mil. The reason or rational for doing it doesn't matter (someone else would pay that, he would produce at a rate of 18 mil a year, he such a swell guy he deserves alot of money, whatever.)

When you pay X dollars for anything, you pay X dollars because you believe its worth it. Even if you intentionally overpay, you are still doing it because the net difference has a utility or function thats greater to you than something else you could do with that money.

Congrats you just lost the argument.

We're talking about whether he was overrated here. Memphis DID intentionally overpay (much like Atlanta did with Joe Johnson). Do they think those guys are superstars worth 18 or 20M a year? No they don't, so they're not overrated. They gave them those deals because it was better than the alternative of losing them for nothing.

You wanna know how much Memphis REALLY thought Gay was worth? They initially offered him a 5yr/$50M extension in 2009

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4618764

An NBA source said the Grizzlies' final offer was a five-year deal worth about $50 million, according to the report, while Gay was seeking a deal similar to the five-year, $65 million extension the Portland Trail Blazers agreed to with LaMarcus Aldridge.

Overrated my ass, please stop.

[Fully]

What on earth... There were rumors the Nets would max him all offseason, the Clippers were also in that conversation. And they WOULD have considering they both struck out on every other major FA.

In an offseason where a 29 year old Joe Johnson (21ppg, 4.9apg, 4.6apg on 46-37-82 shooting) got 6yr/$120M. You think a 23 year old Rudy Gay (19.6ppg, 1.9apg, 5.9rpg on 47-33-75 shooting) wouldn't have gotten 5yr/$82M from some other team? What planet do you live on?

The Grizzlies offered him the max deal in the very first hour of free agency and he accepted. The Nets weren't courting him all offseason, nor were the Clippers. They never got the chance.

I'm pretty sure he was the very first free agent that year to sign. I remember them being worried that he'd get a front loaded offer from someone else that would really screw over their cap situation so they proactively maxed him out.

[Craiger]

Congrats you just lost the argument.

We're talking about whether he was overrated here. Memphis DID intentionally overpay (much like Atlanta did with Joe Johnson). Do they think those guys are superstars worth 18 or 20M a year? No they don't, so they're not overrated. They gave them those deals because it was better than the alternative of losing them for nothing.

You wanna know how much Memphis REALLY thought Gay was worth? They initially offered him a 5yr/$50M extension in 2009

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4618764



Overrated my ass, please stop.

I want to ask "umm what" again but then I'm afraid I'd get an answer.

Yes you won. Nice work.

[Fully]

Congrats you just lost the argument.

We're talking about whether he was overrated here. Memphis DID intentionally overpay (much like Atlanta did with Joe Johnson). Do they think those guys are superstars worth 18 or 20M a year? No they don't, so they're not overrated. They gave them those deals because it was better than the alternative of losing them for nothing.

You wanna know how much Memphis REALLY thought Gay was worth? They initially offered him a 5yr/$50M extension in 2009

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4618764



Overrated my ass, please stop.

So because a perennially frugal franchise like the Grizzlies gave Gay a lowball offer a year out from being a restricted free agent, that proves your point and ends the discussion for good?