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Bargnani vs. Vince Carter - Raptors Legacy

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  • #16
    Xixak wrote: View Post
    There's no need to condemn the whole thread and call the question silly.

    The reason I brought it up is because of how significant the ire that Bargnani brought to this franchise is/was. I think it's something people are still going to be talking about and referencing to a few years from now even though he's no longer on our team.
    Bargnani definitely brought some ire to the city but i don't think that 'ire' has any true significance to the franchise at all. He was a failed player who disappointed the city and people hated him. period. - he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. I could see myself talking basketball in a bar sometime in the future and Barg's name may come up, yes, but so will other names...personally Hedo disgust me more.

    Also, Im trying to figure out what you mean by the 'ire' being 'significant'? and then comparing that with the positivity that Vince brought? huh? sorry dude, nothing personal here just trying to understand. Yes, Bargs never lived up to expectations or maybe our expectations were too high. Yes, as it turned out, we wasted a first overall pick on the guy - but at the time it seemed like a healthy gamble....anyways, these are different questions all together. Vince's impact however, now that was significant. People on here may say it wasn't a lasting significance or it didn't mean anything since we've never accomplished anything but i disagree. Vince brought Toronto to the NBA map more so than any other player before him or since...easily

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    • #17
      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
      I think one could easily argue that Vince Carters impact on this city goes far beyond Statistics.
      It goes far beyond even on-court contributions if you ask me.
      Totally agree. Anyone trying to brush aside Vince's time in Toronto is just being obnoxiously indifferent.

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      • #18
        OldSchool wrote: View Post
        Bargnani definitely brought some ire to the city but i don't think that 'ire' has any true significance to the franchise at all. He was a failed player who disappointed the city and people hated him. period. - he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. I could see myself talking basketball in a bar sometime in the future and Barg's name may come up, yes, but so will other names...personally Hedo disgust me more.

        Also, Im trying to figure out what you mean by the 'ire' being 'significant'? and then comparing that with the positivity that Vince brought? huh? sorry dude, nothing personal here just trying to understand. Yes, Bargs never lived up to expectations or maybe our expectations were too high. Yes, as it turned out, we wasted a first overall pick on the guy - but at the time it seemed like a healthy gamble....anyways, these are different questions all together. Vince's impact however, now that was significant. People on here may say it wasn't a lasting significance or it didn't mean anything since we've never accomplished anything but i disagree. Vince brought Toronto to the NBA map more so than any other player before him or since...easily
        Everything you just said is your opinion... and that's ok.

        But there are some people who would disagree so that's why this thread was made.

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        • #19
          iblastoff wrote: View Post
          Totally agree. Anyone trying to brush aside Vince's time in Toronto is just being obnoxiously indifferent.
          I was on RealGM and a bunch of them were saying they'd be "done" with the Raptors if they retired his jersey.... seriously guys?

          Vince's jersey should be retired the second his career is over.

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          • #20
            Xixak wrote: View Post
            Everything you just said is your opinion... and that's ok.

            But there are some people who would disagree so that's why this thread was made.
            Dude you didn't read what i wrote. What is it you're trying to ask with this thread? which player had more of an impact to the team right? Just curious, what do you think Bargnani's legacy to the franchise is?

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            • #21
              Xixak wrote: View Post
              I was on RealGM and a bunch of them were saying they'd be "done" with the Raptors if they retired his jersey.... seriously guys?

              Vince's jersey should be retired the second his career is over.
              I believe that would be a good move for Toronto to make I wish Amir would wear another number.....I love Amir but I dont think anyone should rock the 15.

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              • #22
                OldSchool wrote: View Post
                Just curious, what do you think Bargnani's legacy to the franchise is?
                Exactly. He has no lasting legacy with this team. He's just another player added to a list of failures this franchise has dealt with.

                Vince impacted this team long after he was gone. We would've already forgotten about Bargs had it not been for new threads popping up regarding him every couple days.
                Twitter - @thekid_it

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                • #23
                  OldSchool wrote: View Post
                  Dude you didn't read what i wrote. What is it you're trying to ask with this thread? which player had more of an impact to the team right? Just curious, what do you think Bargnani's legacy to the franchise is?
                  My vote is for Vince Carter:

                  Xixak wrote:
                  First of all... I accidentally voted for Bargnani in the poll.
                  I don't disagree with your posts or opinion, I just don't like the fact that you called it a silly question when there are obviously some people who think Bargnani's was more significant.

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                  • #24
                    isaacthompson wrote: View Post
                    Exactly. He has no lasting legacy with this team. He's just another player added to a list of failures this franchise has dealt with.

                    We would've already forgotten about Bargs had it not been for new threads popping up regarding him every couple days.
                    Disagree.
                    If that were the case, then Bargs wouldn't get booed when he comes here.. and you know he will be.
                    I won't be doing it, but I know he will be.
                    And that being the point.. Toronto fans don't EVER forget when you've slighted them as a fanbase.
                    And it could be argued, and I believe this is the heart of the debate here, is that Bargnani's failure to live up to the fanbase's expectations, legit or unfounded, has set us back perhaps more than Carter ever brought us forward.

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                    • #25
                      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                      Disagree.
                      If that were the case, then Bargs wouldn't get booed when he comes here.. and you know he will be.
                      I won't be doing it, but I know he will be.
                      And that being the point.. Toronto fans don't EVER forget when you've slighted them as a fanbase.
                      And it could be argued, and I believe this is the heart of the debate here, is that Bargnani's failure to live up to the fanbase's expectations, legit or unfounded, has set us back perhaps more than Carter ever brought us forward.
                      Just because a player gets booed doesn't mean they have any sort of lasting or meaningful legacy to the team. Sure he'll get booed, maybe worse than VC and Tmac got or maybe not...so what? For the other 70+ games that we don't play NewYork the team and the city won't even be thinking about Bargs...he'll be an afterthought.

                      IsaacThompson got it right when he said "We would've already forgotten about Bargs had it not been for new threads popping up regarding him every couple days" and if Bargs name keeps popping up in threads here and there is proof of a legacy than thats peanuts compared to what Vince did for the team.

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                      • #26
                        In no way does Carter deserve to have his jersey retired in Toronto. I acknowledge he's the best player to ever wear a uniform, but that speaks more about how crappy this franchise has been since inception.

                        Hall-of-famers deserve to have their jerseys retired. Carter isn't a hall-of-famer.

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                        • #27
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Hall-of-famers deserve to have their jerseys retired. Carter isn't a hall-of-famer.
                          This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

                          Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

                          According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.

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                          • #28
                            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                            This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

                            Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

                            According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.
                            Right, but since we're discussing retiring Carter's jersey in Toronto, I tend not to put any weight on his achievements post trade.

                            I ask myself, "did Vince Carter have a HOF-worthy career while playing for the Raptors?". IMO, the answer is an easy "no".

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                            • #29
                              The way Carter left Toronto has a huge bearing (for me personally) on whether or not he should have his number retired. He did not leave with class.. in my opinion Jose should be near to the top of the list of retired jerseys but he didn't have much of an impact on the court.

                              The Raptors could do what Orlando did and put #6 in the rafters for the 'Fans' being their 'sixth man'.. lol

                              The list of retired jerseys can be found here:
                              http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-retired-numbers.shtml

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                              • #30
                                the way i understood the question, IMO, its pretty much equal.

                                The disdain i felt for Bargnani pretty much equals the love i felt for Vince when he carried this Toronto team to new heights.

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