The Raptors and the 2014 Draft

[mcHAPPY]

Chuck Hayes with a jump-shot would be a really useful player, though.

With a 36" vertical too.

[Superjudge]

I'd draft for attitude and IQ all day long right now.
Kyle anderson.

Gonna be a star

[DanH]

I'd draft for attitude and IQ all day long right now.
Kyle anderson.

Gonna be a star

Ceiling is Hedo Turkoglu. No thanks.

[stooley]

With a 36" vertical too.

that's an extra 34"

[OptimalOptimist]

I'd draft for attitude and IQ all day long right now.
Kyle anderson.

Gonna be a star

I'm really sure Casey would love a terrible athlete and defender. He can become something good, but it sure as hell won't happen with the Raptors.

I'm not sure what the concern about stokes height is tbh and I like the comparison to Sullinger with him. Sullinger manhandles players taller than him on a game to game basis because of his strength, quickness and IQ.

[saints91]

If Stokes can drop another 10 lbs and work with our training staff to maximize his strength/speed ratio he will have no problem working against the other PF's in this league. I think the scouting staff had a good glimpse of how well he can defend quicker longer PF's yesterday against Payne.

If he can refine his post game and add a more range he will be valuable at the next level.

Chuck Hayes is not an accurate comparison for Stokes.

[OptimalOptimist]

This site is terrific regarding workout reviews.

Although there has been lots of talk about Toronto trying to move up in the draft, all of the players the team has brought in so far are ones the Raptors were expected to take a look at without making any deals. The team has cautioned about the difficulty in making a trade to acquire a lottery pick and has set realistic expectations as they prepared for the draft.

“A big thing is you have to be realistic on expectations of the players,” Tolzman said. “Everyone wants to find those diamonds and those guys that will be All-Stars and MVPs and those guys are pretty hard to find outside of the lottery – the Top 5 even. If you can find guys at 20 and 37 that have careers that are eight year players that are role players on your team doing good things to help you win, that’s a successful draft pick. You might get lucky and hit a guy that’s going to be a big time contributor and pushing for All-Stars and that kind of thing, but that’s not really what you are looking for when you are outside of the Top 5 or Top 10. You are just looking for guys that will come into your team and do well and not mess up the chemistry and give it their all. If you can narrow in on guys like that – find the guys that will be the right fit – then you did well in the draft.”

The only disappointment for the Raptors was not getting those 3, 4 or 5 guys that might slip on draft night to come in for a workout or at least a chat with the trainers and coaching staff and that reluctance could become a huge mistake. When you aren’t expecting to draft a future All-Star, it is a lot easier to select a player you have vetted internally as a good fit when the difference in talent is not likely to be overwhelming.

“There are always the handful of guys that we tried our best to get them in, but for whatever reason the agent didn’t feel like it was in their client’s best interest to send him here,” Tolzman said. “It’s a part of the business. It’s understandable when there are a handful of guys that we’re high on, that we think if they are there on draft night we would like to see them beforehand so that if they are there on draft night we’ll be comfortable with them. There are guys that they didn’t see it as a wise move on their part to come workout here, they are working for all of the teams in front of us – you deal with it. There are 3, 4, 5 guys we really tried and it didn’t work out. [Payton, Young?]

“(Stokes) has shown that he can face up and hit jumpers,” Tolzman said. “We didn’t expect him to shoot the three as well as he did today. I think he has been working on that a lot to prove he can do that, but his 15-18 foot range even during the season is pretty good. It’s something to where he is trying to show people that he is more than just a banger and a bruiser and a rebounder and it just helps his case even more.”

There is very few mentions about Payne. I'd say Stokes appears to be held in higher regards than him and Capela.

*Time to pat myself in the back* Looks like they read my Learning from the Pacers mistake. Tolzamann is basically saying that fit is as important as talent when you bring in a new player.

[Chr1s1anL]

Stokes by the numbers

Draftexpress has done it's annual breakdown of the top prospects by the numbers, based on position. For some reason Jarnell Stokes is ranked with the centers. I don't know why since they had him slated as PF on his profile page but, I'm guessing it's cause he played Center at Tennessee past 3 years. Oh Well here's he stacked up this year.

Points Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE PTS40PA
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 27
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 20.2
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 19.5
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 18.8
Patric Young Florida NCAA 17.7
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 16.9
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 16.6
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 16.5
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 15.7
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 14.3
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 11.8
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 10.6
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 9.9


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350JWUXx9
http://www.draftexpress.com

Ranked third points per 40

Jarnell Stokes may lack size, but his wide frame helped him score at a solid rate on the block.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350KftQP3
http://www.draftexpress.com

Free Throw Attempts Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE FTA40PA
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 12.2
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 8.6
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 8
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 6.2
Patric Young Florida NCAA 6
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 6
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 5.7
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 5.2
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 5.1
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 4.9
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 4.8
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 3
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 3


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350L1CiSz
http://www.draftexpress.com

Jarnell Stokes was a horse inside at Tennessee, absorbing contact at a high rate and rounding out the top-3.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350LFL47j
http://www.draftexpress.com

Free Throw Attempts Per Possession
NAME TEAM LEAGUE FTA_POSS
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 0.53
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 0.52
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 0.51
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 0.49
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 0.48
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 0.42
Patric Young Florida NCAA 0.4
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 0.36
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 0.35
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 0.31
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 0.31
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 0.3
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 0.3


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350LTTIcK
http://www.draftexpress.com

Three Point Attempts Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE 3A40PA
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 4.4
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 2.6
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 2.2
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 0.5
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 0.4
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 0.3
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 0.1
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 0
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 0
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 0
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 0
Patric Young Florida NCAA 0
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 0


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350LoyOb8
http://www.draftexpress.com

Didn't take any 3s cause of the system he was in at Tennessee.

True Shooting Percentage
NAME TEAM LEAGUE TSPCT
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 0.67
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 0.64
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 0.63
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 0.62
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 0.62
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 0.61
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 0.6
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 0.59
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 0.59
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 0.58
Patric Young Florida NCAA 0.56
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 0.54
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 0.52


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350MHb5zt
http://www.draftexpress.com

Offensive Rebounds Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE OREB40PA
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 5.4
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 5.2
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 5
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 4.6
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 4.6
Patric Young Florida NCAA 4.2
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 4.1
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 4.1
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 3.9
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 3.1
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 2.9
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 2.7
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 2.5


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350MRQDXo
http://www.draftexpress.com

Rebounding translate to the NBA

Jarnell Stokes and Jusuf Nurkic rank as the two best offensive rebounders in this draft class regardless of position. Their combination of surehandedness, strength, and physicality make them two of the more unique players in this class.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350Ml9KY0
http://www.draftexpress.com

Defensive Rebounds Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE DREB40PA
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 9.7
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 9.3
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 8.7
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 8.5
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 8.2
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 8.1
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 7.6
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 7.6
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 7.1
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 7
Patric Young Florida NCAA 5.7
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 5.1
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 4.5


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350MwKB00
http://www.draftexpress.com

Blocks Per-40 Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE BLK40PA
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 5
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 5
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 4.7
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 4.3
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 3.6
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 3.4
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 3.2
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 2.6
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 2.3
Patric Young Florida NCAA 1.7
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 1.3
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 1.1
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 1.1


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350NAHjgv
http://www.draftexpress.com

Not really a strength but work hard on D side of the ball and wont back down from anyone literally.

Jarnell Stokes and Mitch McGary round out the bottom-3 due in large part to their lack of reach and average explosiveness.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350NhEeFe
http://www.draftexpress.com

Steals Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE STL40PA
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 3.2
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 2.3
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 1.5
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 1.3
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 1.1
Patric Young Florida NCAA 1
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 0.9
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 0.9
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 0.7
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 0.7
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 0.5
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 0.5
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 0.2


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350NuiZvu
http://www.draftexpress.com

Fouls Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE PF40PA
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 8.1
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 8
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 5.6
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 5.4
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 5.3
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 4.3
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 4.2
Patric Young Florida NCAA 4.2
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 3.7
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 3.7
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 3.3
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 3.1
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 2.7


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350O7QucH
http://www.draftexpress.com

Plays smart defence rarely gets is hand caught in the cookie jar. Anti-Amir Johnson basically.

Jarnell Stokes committed the fewest fouls, followed by Alec Brown and Alex Kirk.


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350OXOlKY
http://www.draftexpress.com

Assists Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE AST40PA
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 2.6
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 2.6
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 2.3
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 2.1
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 2
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 1.9
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 1.4
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 1.4
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 1.4
Patric Young Florida NCAA 1.2
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 0.7
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 0.6
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 0.5


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350OeMM1r
http://www.draftexpress.com

Just smart player on both sides of the game. Doesn't force anything. Really learned how to pass out of double team this past year at Tennessee.

Mitch McGary, Jarnell Stokes, and Joel Embiid all showed the ability to find the open man a year ago. While none of the three is an outrageously productive distributor, it is interesting that their assist rates would rank right around average among all prospects in this class regardless of position, as they beat out a number of perimeter players.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350PB5Hod
http://www.draftexpress.com

Turnovers Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted
NAME TEAM LEAGUE TOV40PA
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 4.8
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 4
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 3.1
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 2.9
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 2.8
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 2.8
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 2.7
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 2.7
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 2.4
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 2.3
Patric Young Florida NCAA 2
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 1.8
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 1.6


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350PItMpw
http://www.draftexpress.com

Player Efficiency Rating
NAME TEAM LEAGUE PER
Jusuf Nurkic Cedevita ECUP, ADR, CROATIA 30.5
Joel Embiid Kansas NCAA 28.7
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee NCAA 27.5
Mitch McGary Michigan NCAA 27
Sim Bhullar New Mexico State NCAA 24.6
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay NCAA 22.8
Patric Young Florida NCAA 22.3
Jordan Bachynski Arizona State NCAA 22.1
Alex Kirk New Mexico NCAA 21.2
Isaiah Austin Baylor NCAA 20.6
Walter Tavares Gran Canaria ACB 19.2
Moussa Diagne Fuenlabrada ACB 15.1
Ondrej Balvin Sevilla ACB 14.9


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350PZ6K4f
http://www.draftexpress.com

Jarnell Stokes and Mitch McGary round out the 1st tier of players, as both strong but undersized centers were very productive at the college level and will have a chance to go in the first round on draft day.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz350PjkAMt
http://www.draftexpress.com

[imanshumpert]

This site is terrific regarding workout reviews.



There is very few mentions about Payne. I'd say Stokes appears to be held in higher regards than him and Capela.

*Time to pat myself in the back* Looks like they read my Learning from the Pacers mistake. Tolzamann is basically saying that fit is as important as talent when you bring in a new player.

No that's not what he said. He said that if you have two players of roughly equivalent talent (Quote: "when the difference in talent is not likely to be overwhelming.") you then select the player who fits your team better (Quote: "select a player you have vetted internally as a good fit").

He doesn't really talk about when one player is more talented than another. The premise of your thread didn't make a whole lot of sense tbh.

[OptimalOptimist]

No that's not what he said. He said that if you have two players of roughly equivalent talent (Quote: "when the difference in talent is not likely to be overwhelming.") you then select the player who fits your team better (Quote: "select a player you have vetted internally as a good fit").

He doesn't really talk about when one player is more talented than another. The premise of your thread didn't make a whole lot of sense tbh.

Argh, not this again haha.

Fit is the one of the main factor in developing talent. Ross sucked when he played off the bench behind Gay/DD but started making strides when he had a definite role as a 3&D. You look at Stokes and think that with good veterans such as Chuck and Amir, he will take a couple of hints from them and likely become the 4th or 3rd big in the team in a season or so (assuming Hands Bro leave this year and Chuckster isn't extended).

EDIT: Fit is also the main reason I want no part of Kyle Anderson. Also at the 20th pick, just look at the mocks, there isn't a clear cut better talent than the others, just go with fit and hope for a Kahwi type of internal growth.

[ceez]

did a little research on Stokes last night, seems like a really interesting prospect. his height is a little concerning (6'8, almost 6'9) but from everything that i've read he gets around it with his motor and wingspan. not to mention he's insanely strong. i love that he's a strong post scorer, something we desperately need.

measurements and stuff, he sort of reminds me of kenneth faried, someone MU drafted.

[Superjudge]

Ceiling is Hedo Turkoglu. No thanks.

considering i made a pretty strong statement myself, I will lt this slide..... but dude, if NBA management on ALL 30 teams lose more than they win with draft picks..... I'm fairly certain YOU are not gonna tell me the exact "ceiling" of any young prospect.

You are seeing in SA, and in Miami, and a few other good teams what intellect can do. You have a young, soft, none body tested kid that CLEARLY has a tonne of natural instinct and talent, and you scoff at what? His fitness?

Sorry man, you can teach fit, you can't teach vision. That Kid has it, in spades

[thead]

all right you guys sold me on Stokes...

I've got a pretty decent sized basketboner for him right now

[Chr1s1anL]

I would also like to add that this is the second time the raptors have worked out Stokes. They had a private workout with him prior to the combine. Obviously there is high interest in him by the raptors front office. I think his one of their main targets but, their trying to figure out if he could really fall to 37th. I feel if no big names fall to 20th and Stokes keeps impressing in workouts(5 left). Massai will pick him at 20. Im really starting to think that amir will not be resigned next off season.

[blackjitsu]

This site is terrific regarding workout reviews.



There is very few mentions about Payne. I'd say Stokes appears to be held in higher regards than him and Capela.

*Time to pat myself in the back* Looks like they read my Learning from the Pacers mistake. Tolzamann is basically saying that fit is as important as talent when you bring in a new player.

Sorry Optimist, what website is this?