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The Raptors and the 2014 Draft

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  • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Al Jefferson is anchoring one of the best defenses in the league... so there's that.

    And Tyson Chandler and Marc Gasol have NOT always been considered elite, anchor-type defenders.
    I can recall a time when I suggested we sign Chandler and was laughed at. Not to mention, we wouldn't have been able to trade a package centered around Jose for him (or the eventual package of Diop that brought him to Dallas).
    And I don't even want to get into what some people said when Memphis traded for Gasol ... it wasn't pretty.
    Like mention Al doesn't anchor that defence. People from the outside looking in probably think JV anchors our D but, it's actually Amir.

    Chandler and Marc have always been well respected defenders. It's their offence that been suspect over the years


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    • Chr1s1anL wrote:
      Chandler and Marc have always been well respected defenders. It's their offence that been suspect over the years
      Completely disagree.

      And a "well respected" defender, does not make an "elite, anchor-type defender".
      Massive jump between those two.
      Last edited by Joey; Thu Feb 6, 2014, 03:29 PM.

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      • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        Completely disagree.

        And a "well respected" defender, does not make an "elite, anchor-type defender".
        Massive jump between those two.
        So would say JV is better defender than those two at the same age?


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        • Axel wrote: View Post
          2nd round sure, but I wouldn't stretch that far for a 1st rounder, which is what I read into the comment above by Octothorp.
          To clarify my comments, I was saying that if one of the top-tier point guards falls (I think the top tier is Smart, Exum, Ennis, and LaVine), I'd take them, but if those guys are gone, I think you could expect to get one of the next tier guys (Micic, Christon, Payton, Carson) in the early second round, in which case it makes sense to go after a forward with our first-rounder.

          Some mocks have Gordon dropping to the range where we're picking, and if that happens he would be great. But after Gordon, PF/C prospects aren't great in our range. Montrezl Harrel is interesting. Payne, McAdoo, Roscoe Smith, O'Bryant all have lower ceilings IMO. Chris Walker might be one of the higher-upside forwards available in our range, if he declares. My impression of Capela just from a couple videos and the scouting reports I've read put him below Gordon, but in the same grouping as Harrel and Walker. I'd be somewhat surprised if Capela drops to the second round, given that every mock I've seen that includes him has him as a top 20 pick.

          I'm all for being opportunistic and seeing who drops to us, but I wouldn't rule out Capela, and I would rather take him or one of the other bigs I mentioned than one of those second-tier PGs.

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          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
            So would say JV is better defender than those two at the same age?


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            Better than? No.
            On par with? Absolutely.
            (Should also be noted that Gasol was 25 in his 2nd Season...)

            As Second Year players -
            TRB%
            Tyson Chandler: 15.5% (14.4% as Rookie)
            Marc Gasol: 15.1% (14.7% as Rookie)
            Jonas Valanciunas: 17.6% (14.9% as Rookie)

            BLK%
            Tyson Chandler: 4.2% (5% as Rookie)
            Marc Gasol: 3.4% (2.9% as rookie)
            Jonas Valanciunas: 2.7% (4.2% as Rookie)

            DRtg
            Tyson Chandler: 103
            Marc Gasol: 108
            Jonas Valanciunas: 103

            DWS
            Tyson Chandler: 2.1
            Marc Gasol: 2.5
            Jonas Valanciunas: 2.0
            Last edited by Joey; Thu Feb 6, 2014, 05:11 PM.

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            • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
              Sometimes I fantasize about what the Raps would be like with Al Jefferson as its starting power forward. We probably could add 6 - 8 more wins by now.
              Of all the PF's in the league, you're fantasizing about Big Al?!

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              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                Tyson Chandler and Marc has always been a good defender. Al Jefferson isn't even that good of defender. Those aren't good examples.


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                As much as I hate to agree with Joey Chandler took years to be a decent player much less a defensive anchor. He was awful when he came into the league.

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                • JV has just been so disappointing on that side...


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                  • Al Jefferson is the best in post in the league, hard to stop him without double teaming. Underrated player.

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                    • Maybe I haven't seen enough of Jefferson but I like both Z-Bo and David West, in the post before Al. He's just not as athletic as those other two.

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                      • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                        Maybe I haven't seen enough of Jefferson but I like both Z-Bo and David West, in the post before Al. He's just not as athletic as those other two.
                        Lol Z-Bo + Athletic ...

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          People from the outside looking in probably think JV anchors our D but, it's actually Amir.
                          Is it?

                          TRB%
                          Amir Johnson: 13.3%
                          Jonas Valanciunas: 17.6%

                          BLK%
                          Amir Johnson: 3.2%
                          Jonas Valanciunas: 2.7%

                          DRtg
                          Amir Johnson: 103
                          Jonas Valanciunas: 103

                          DWS
                          Amir Johnson: 2.0
                          Jonas Valanciunas: 2.0


                          Looks like they're both doing their part. Which seems exactly right for this team - everyone pulling in the same direction.

                          Now give JV more than 111 games.
                          Last edited by Joey; Thu Feb 6, 2014, 07:09 PM.

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                          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Defensive big man are usually good from the start. I'm not saying he'll never be a decent defender. I feel the ship has sailed for defensive anchor.


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                            Chandler and Noah were both very unimpressive their first few years.
                            "Stop eating your sushi."
                            "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                            "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                            - Jack Armstrong

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                            • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                              Is it?

                              TRB%
                              Amir Johnson: 13.3%
                              Jonas Valanciunas: 17.6%

                              BLK%
                              Amir Johnson: 3.2%
                              Jonas Valanciunas: 2.7%

                              DRtg
                              Amir Johnson: 103
                              Jonas Valanciunas: 103

                              DWS
                              Amir Johnson: 2.0
                              Jonas Valanciunas: 2.0


                              Looks like they're both doing their part. Which seems exactly right for this team - everyone pulling in the same direction.

                              Now give JV more than 111 games.
                              This is why numbers don't tell the whole story. Who hear actually believe that Amir and JV equally as good on D?


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                              • ......So! What do people think of PJ Hairston? He seems to have gotten his act together since being forced into a D League contract. Solid numbers, learning how to deal with life on the road...and boatloads of potential. Not really a position of need though.

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