akashsingh wrote:
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Not just J.V on this team!
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Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View PostSo why exactly did we give Barg all these years to try and get better and all of the sudden it's not OK for guys like Ross or even DD to have a fair shake at getting support?
Besides, I had Bargnani written off in 2009.
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special1 wrote: View PostThank you!
The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.
FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.
That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.
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special1 wrote: View PostYea - Just like "we" thought Andrea Bargnani could be an all star one day.
I say you let him play hard and see how good he becomes. I think its foolish to build around someone who isn't already an all-star or well on their way to become one. Is JV going to be a better player than Andre Drummond or Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter?
I am done rebuilding. You get players to come here because Toronto is simply one of the best cities in the WORLD. PERIOD. you start a winning atmosphere and the players will come! You rebuild and JV will get blown apart on a crappy team.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostGiving anyone else as long as Bargnani for the sake of "fairness" is exactly how not to build a basketball team.
Besides, I had Bargnani written off in 2009.
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Matt52 wrote:
"There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."
Nilanka wrote: View PostWhich makes this a very important year for our friend, Terrence Ross.
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special1 wrote: View PostThank you!
The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.
FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.
That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.
JV has not proven much in the league - that is a given. However he certainly did show more than DD's rookie year while adapting to a new continent and language. Relative to other notable big men rookie seasons, JV's is on par or much better (go play with Basketball-Reference.com search engine). Then looking at his resume he is MVP at Euro and World junior championships at 16, 17, 18, 19 age groups. He was playing against grown men - and holding his own - at 17. He follows all that up Summer League MVP. It should be noted that for once all the JV hype is not coming just Toronto media and fans, he is getting A LOT of attention south of the border.
What I want to see is JV get the same opportunity DD was given. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be happening and it is a crying shame because JV's talent, physical attributes, and skills is incredible, quite frankly. That is the difference between JV and DD - you can go replace DD tomorrow with any number of free agents or draft prospects; guys like JV are what teams blow up their roster hoping to draft. Toronto, should they decide to blow things up, are already one step ahead of the game.
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special1 wrote: View PostMatt52 wrote:
"There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."
AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
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Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View PostSee, that's my point exactly. It's all about the system. Detroit is giving Drummond the chance to play and make mistakes. He collected 15 boards last night and is a Double Double machine going forward. JV, like Casey stated several times, will not have plays designed for him. Therefor, Drummond will always be ahead of him until JV gets more touches!
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special1 wrote: View PostMatt52 wrote:
"There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."
AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
Also, if you read more closely, Matt said at the end of year 2 and I think it is fair to say that by April, we will all have a very good idea of what JV will be.Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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special1 wrote: View PostMatt52 wrote:
"There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."
AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
You really need to take a step back and look at the big picture.... or at the very least take an honest look at the last 5 years.
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Axel wrote: View PostThere are certainly players that you can't predict after year 2, whether they will be legit NBA players or not, and while I personally feel Year 3 is the best indicator, I get Matt's point. Most players you can tell fairly early whether they got it or not.
Also, if you read more closely, Matt said at the end of year 2 and I think it is fair to say that by April, we will all have a very good idea of what JV will be.
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Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View PostSo why exactly did we give Barg all these years to try and get better and all of the sudden it's not OK for guys like Ross or even DD to have a fair shake at getting support?Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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special1 wrote: View PostYea - Just like "we" thought Andrea Bargnani could be an all star one day.
I say you let him play hard and see how good he becomes. I think its foolish to build around someone who isn't already an all-star or well on their way to become one. Is JV going to be a better player than Andre Drummond or Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter?
I am done rebuilding. You get players to come here because Toronto is simply one of the best cities in the WORLD. PERIOD. you start a winning atmosphere and the players will come! You rebuild and JV will get blown apart on a crappy team.
Bold two: Is this Bryan Colangelo? Because if you are done rebuilding now, get ready for some disappointing ball followed by a rebuild in 2 seasons.
Bold three: Maybe for a year or two. However, if a rebuild is done properly there will be some significant talent on the team by the end of his rookie contract (you know, when he is 23). Also, did DeMar get blown apart on a crappy team? It sounds like he did alright from the love he is receiving. The bottom line is talent. Toronto does not have enough of it at the elite level nor do they have enough of it in their depth. The best way for Toronto to accumulate talent is to draft it or trade for it (interesting enough draft picks and prospects obtained through the draft is also what teams are looking for in return). The free agency route, with this current core, is NOT going to happen so all the hyperbole regarding best city in the world means diddly in free agency when you have more of your cap space used up than you can offer a top free agent - a core of Gay, Lowry, DD, Amir, JV, and the cap holds for remaining roster spots takes the Raptors past a max contract offer for a free agent.
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special1 wrote: View PostI am done rebuilding.
Matt52 wrote: View PostBold three: Maybe for a year or two. However, if a rebuild is done properly there will be some significant talent on the team by the end of his rookie contract (you know, when he is 23). Also, did DeMar get blown apart on a crappy team? It sounds like he did alright from the love he is receiving. The bottom line is talent. Toronto does not have enough of it at the elite level nor do they have enough of it in their depth. The best way for Toronto to accumulate talent is to draft it or trade for it (interesting enough draft picks and prospects obtained through the draft is also what teams are looking for in return). The free agency route, with this current core, is NOT going to happen so all the hyperbole regarding best city in the world means diddly in free agency when you have more of your cap space used up than you can offer a top free agent - a core of Gay, Lowry, DD, Amir, JV, and the cap holds for remaining roster spots takes the Raptors past a max contract offer for a free agent.Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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