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  • #31
    akashsingh wrote: View Post
    I would take Ed over DD 10 times out of 10. We won those games because we had depth at PF and PG.

    fyi http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/1...orlando-magic/
    Hahahahaha.....This is a joke right? Your taking one pre-season game to prove your point? FYI - I really liked ED and took a lot of heat from many (you know who you are) for saying i wouldnt include him in a trade for Rudy Gay.....but come one dude!

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    • #32
      Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
      So why exactly did we give Barg all these years to try and get better and all of the sudden it's not OK for guys like Ross or even DD to have a fair shake at getting support?
      Giving anyone else as long as Bargnani for the sake of "fairness" is exactly how not to build a basketball team.

      Besides, I had Bargnani written off in 2009.

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      • #33
        special1 wrote: View Post
        Thank you!

        The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.

        FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.

        That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.
        See, that's my point exactly. It's all about the system. Detroit is giving Drummond the chance to play and make mistakes. He collected 15 boards last night and is a Double Double machine going forward. JV, like Casey stated several times, will not have plays designed for him. Therefor, Drummond will always be ahead of him until JV gets more touches!

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        • #34
          special1 wrote: View Post
          Yea - Just like "we" thought Andrea Bargnani could be an all star one day.

          I say you let him play hard and see how good he becomes. I think its foolish to build around someone who isn't already an all-star or well on their way to become one. Is JV going to be a better player than Andre Drummond or Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter?

          I am done rebuilding. You get players to come here because Toronto is simply one of the best cities in the WORLD. PERIOD. you start a winning atmosphere and the players will come! You rebuild and JV will get blown apart on a crappy team.
          +1

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          • #35
            Nilanka wrote: View Post
            Giving anyone else as long as Bargnani for the sake of "fairness" is exactly how not to build a basketball team.

            Besides, I had Bargnani written off in 2009.
            Not saying to give anyone the same amount of time as Barg. I was simply stating that Ross is only on his second year. And I actually thought B.C. was going to trade DD and that's why he selected Ross. If, like he said so many times, you take the best player on the board, why not pick Drummond. Everyone knew he had potential. It was just his motor that people questioned. He has proven many people wrong in questioning him motor!

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            • #36
              Matt52 wrote:

              "There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."

              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              Which makes this a very important year for our friend, Terrence Ross.
              AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?

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              • #37
                special1 wrote: View Post
                Thank you!

                The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.

                FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.

                That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.
                Who is hating DeMar? I am certainly not. The guy has 4 years in the league. Everybody and their dog knows what he can do, his strengths and weaknesses. Might he continue to improve? Maybe but he is already 24 so combined with 3 years of endless touches and opportunity history is not on his side. True star talent is evident almost immediately. You don't get guys coming out of nowhere 5 years in to become all-star/franchise talent.

                JV has not proven much in the league - that is a given. However he certainly did show more than DD's rookie year while adapting to a new continent and language. Relative to other notable big men rookie seasons, JV's is on par or much better (go play with Basketball-Reference.com search engine). Then looking at his resume he is MVP at Euro and World junior championships at 16, 17, 18, 19 age groups. He was playing against grown men - and holding his own - at 17. He follows all that up Summer League MVP. It should be noted that for once all the JV hype is not coming just Toronto media and fans, he is getting A LOT of attention south of the border.

                What I want to see is JV get the same opportunity DD was given. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be happening and it is a crying shame because JV's talent, physical attributes, and skills is incredible, quite frankly. That is the difference between JV and DD - you can go replace DD tomorrow with any number of free agents or draft prospects; guys like JV are what teams blow up their roster hoping to draft. Toronto, should they decide to blow things up, are already one step ahead of the game.

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                • #38
                  special1 wrote: View Post
                  Matt52 wrote:

                  "There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."



                  AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
                  JV doesn't need to become a savior (but if he does, that's great). He's already shown to be a serviceable member of the rotation. Unfortunately, we can't say the same for Ross or Acy yet.

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                  • #39
                    Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
                    See, that's my point exactly. It's all about the system. Detroit is giving Drummond the chance to play and make mistakes. He collected 15 boards last night and is a Double Double machine going forward. JV, like Casey stated several times, will not have plays designed for him. Therefor, Drummond will always be ahead of him until JV gets more touches!
                    And this is why the Raptors will continue to be stuck in the mud if things unfold this way.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      special1 wrote: View Post
                      Matt52 wrote:

                      "There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."



                      AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
                      There are certainly players that you can't predict after year 2, whether they will be legit NBA players or not, and while I personally feel Year 3 is the best indicator, I get Matt's point. Most players you can tell fairly early whether they got it or not.

                      Also, if you read more closely, Matt said at the end of year 2 and I think it is fair to say that by April, we will all have a very good idea of what JV will be.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        special1 wrote: View Post
                        Matt52 wrote:

                        "There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."



                        AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
                        JV has already shown he is, at minimum, a starting NBA centre in this league. Do you know how difficult that is to come by?

                        You really need to take a step back and look at the big picture.... or at the very least take an honest look at the last 5 years.

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                        • #42
                          Axel wrote: View Post
                          There are certainly players that you can't predict after year 2, whether they will be legit NBA players or not, and while I personally feel Year 3 is the best indicator, I get Matt's point. Most players you can tell fairly early whether they got it or not.

                          Also, if you read more closely, Matt said at the end of year 2 and I think it is fair to say that by April, we will all have a very good idea of what JV will be.
                          It is nice to know some people actually read the posts.

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                          • #43
                            Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
                            So why exactly did we give Barg all these years to try and get better and all of the sudden it's not OK for guys like Ross or even DD to have a fair shake at getting support?
                            That is a great way to lose credibility. Let's repeat the same mistakes that got the last guy fired.
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              special1 wrote: View Post
                              Yea - Just like "we" thought Andrea Bargnani could be an all star one day.

                              I say you let him play hard and see how good he becomes. I think its foolish to build around someone who isn't already an all-star or well on their way to become one. Is JV going to be a better player than Andre Drummond or Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter?

                              I am done rebuilding. You get players to come here because Toronto is simply one of the best cities in the WORLD. PERIOD. you start a winning atmosphere and the players will come! You rebuild and JV will get blown apart on a crappy team.
                              Bold one: why don't you look at their head to head matchups in European junior tournaments. Also at this time, Kanter has an extra year in the league - which is huge - granted he has hardly had a chance to shine in Utah.

                              Bold two: Is this Bryan Colangelo? Because if you are done rebuilding now, get ready for some disappointing ball followed by a rebuild in 2 seasons.

                              Bold three: Maybe for a year or two. However, if a rebuild is done properly there will be some significant talent on the team by the end of his rookie contract (you know, when he is 23). Also, did DeMar get blown apart on a crappy team? It sounds like he did alright from the love he is receiving. The bottom line is talent. Toronto does not have enough of it at the elite level nor do they have enough of it in their depth. The best way for Toronto to accumulate talent is to draft it or trade for it (interesting enough draft picks and prospects obtained through the draft is also what teams are looking for in return). The free agency route, with this current core, is NOT going to happen so all the hyperbole regarding best city in the world means diddly in free agency when you have more of your cap space used up than you can offer a top free agent - a core of Gay, Lowry, DD, Amir, JV, and the cap holds for remaining roster spots takes the Raptors past a max contract offer for a free agent.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                special1 wrote: View Post
                                I am done rebuilding.
                                I am always curious about these types of statements, does that mean you are going to stop being a fan if the team rebuilds against your wishes? I am seriously curious here, because if I stopped following a team because they did something I didn't want, then I would have stopped following the Raps a long time ago. Isn't the point of being a fan of sticking with them through it all and getting to enjoy it all when they finally achieve greatness?

                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Bold three: Maybe for a year or two. However, if a rebuild is done properly there will be some significant talent on the team by the end of his rookie contract (you know, when he is 23). Also, did DeMar get blown apart on a crappy team? It sounds like he did alright from the love he is receiving. The bottom line is talent. Toronto does not have enough of it at the elite level nor do they have enough of it in their depth. The best way for Toronto to accumulate talent is to draft it or trade for it (interesting enough draft picks and prospects obtained through the draft is also what teams are looking for in return). The free agency route, with this current core, is NOT going to happen so all the hyperbole regarding best city in the world means diddly in free agency when you have more of your cap space used up than you can offer a top free agent - a core of Gay, Lowry, DD, Amir, JV, and the cap holds for remaining roster spots takes the Raptors past a max contract offer for a free agent.
                                JV's next contract seasons should be the target for this franchise. By then, we should have some young players getting traction in the league, and JV at the center position entering his prime. It will be glorious.
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                                Comment

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