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Chisholm: Raps Wings Not Longterm Solution with JV
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Rapstor4Life wrote: View PostChandler Parson is the best current white basketball player, huge fan of his game.
He's a second round steal for sure but he's not that good, he's simply a very good role player.
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If the team is trying to win right now, giving Jonas touches makes little sense. He's turnover-prone on offence and if you took away his putbacks/gimmes, I doubt his field goal percentage would be over 35/40. And that's the problem: much like his Lithuanian national team, Casey can't afford to let Jonas go through growing pains with his post game. If you want to really develop the kid, you need to let him get 30+ touches on the block per night, and let him face every kind of situation you could possibly throw at him. Obviously that's not going to jive with the team's current direction, for better or worse.
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New poster here, just registered - long time poster over at RealGM but can't stand that place anymore.
Anyways, people who think Jonas will take a 15 & 10 step this year are nuts. He will have those types of games on occassion yes but having to share the ball with DD, Gay in the starting unit - he will not get the touches he needs (especially with Gays tunnel vision). I just hope he doesn't get frustrated with the lack of touches. He seems to have his head on his shoulders but theres been a couple times this preseason where he's been looked off in the post and you could see that he was upset/frustrated.
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DudyDeGay wrote: View PostNew poster here, just registered - long time poster over at RealGM but can't stand that place anymore.
Anyways, people who think Jonas will take a 15 & 10 step this year are nuts. He will have those types of games on occassion yes but having to share the ball with DD, Gay in the starting unit - he will not get the touches he needs (especially with Gays tunnel vision). I just hope he doesn't get frustrated with the lack of touches. He seems to have his head on his shoulders but theres been a couple times this preseason where he's been looked off in the post and you could see that he was upset/frustrated.
You're right on the frustration. I've seen and shared it too.
The Raptors treat JV like the Bulls in the early '90's use to treat Bill Cartwright. They'd give him 4-5 touches to start the game and maybe 2-3 to start the 2nd half and then, "Get out of the way, Bill!"
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This is where I think Ross' development is key along with JV's. I think Demar's development (into near all-star status) could give the team a good haul. Elite 3's are harder to come by than scoring 2's (IMO). Besides, who's after Gay on this roster? Ross this season (with more confidence) could step in Demar's shoes if he's traded.“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
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Some people seem to want to force way too much weight onto JV's shoulders, with way too much EARLY expectations. Where's all that DEFENSE FIRST chatter that's been going on for years. How many of the "defense first" people are now demanding more touches for JV? Shit, he's a kid, still adapting to a very different style of game, playing against stronger MEN than him, and he needs a lot of work on his defense if he's ever going to be the defensive anchor that the team needs at the 5, no matter what side of the tank fence you stand. You want that defense first ingrained in him, or make that secondary to get him touches? Sheeeesh.
Give the kid some time for shit sake. Yeah, he has the potential to one day be both a defensive anchor and one of the primary scoring options, but at his age, and level of experience, expecting rapid development at both ends, or even pushing it, is pure silliness.
I should add, the "get JV more touches" refrain is often used to support the "get rid of the scorers and tank" side as well, actually thinking it would accelerate his development. NO, it wouldn't. The first thing I have to say about that is that such a concept is very far away from how JV grew up playing the TEAM game. He's not a wing, a la Lebron/KD/Kobe/Wade, all of whom spent their entire basketball lives being THE primary scorers, within a 1-on-1 iso-centric style of bball. Take others off the team that often demand double teams (Gay, DD), and every time JV touches the ball, he'll be doubled, and forced to get the ball out to scrubs every time. How's he develop like that? Take West and George away from the Pacers, how well do you think Hibbert develops offensively?
At the end of the day, do the kid a favour: don't put to many early expectations on the kid, don't demand that the coach makes him the focal point at both ends, when he's barely 21 and barely getting his feet wet in this league. Damn, some fans, and some writers, seem to want to put him in the position of being the next boo-bird target. Let the kid develop, at a pace NBA coaches are far more experienced at than any of us.
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p00ka wrote: View PostSome people seem to want to force way too much weight onto JV's shoulders, with way too much EARLY expectations. Where's all that DEFENSE FIRST chatter that's been going on for years. How many of the "defense first" people are now demanding more touches for JV? Shit, he's a kid, still adapting to a very different style of game, playing against stronger MEN than him, and he needs a lot of work on his defense if he's ever going to be the defensive anchor that the team needs at the 5, no matter what side of the tank fence you stand. You want that defense first ingrained in him, or make that secondary to get him touches? Sheeeesh.
Give the kid some time for shit sake. Yeah, he has the potential to one day be both a defensive anchor and one of the primary scoring options, but at his age, and level of experience, expecting rapid development at both ends, or even pushing it, is pure silliness.
I should add, the "get JV more touches" refrain is often used to support the "get rid of the scorers and tank" side as well, actually thinking it would accelerate his development. NO, it wouldn't. The first thing I have to say about that is that such a concept is very far away from how JV grew up playing the TEAM game. He's not a wing, a la Lebron/KD/Kobe/Wade, all of whom spent their entire basketball lives being THE primary scorers, within a 1-on-1 iso-centric style of bball. Take others off the team that often demand double teams (Gay, DD), and every time JV touches the ball, he'll be doubled, and forced to get the ball out to scrubs every time. How's he develop like that? Take West and George away from the Pacers, how well do you think Hibbert develops offensively?
At the end of the day, do the kid a favour: don't put to many early expectations on the kid, don't demand that the coach makes him the focal point at both ends, when he's barely 21 and barely getting his feet wet in this league. Damn, some fans, and some writers, seem to want to put him in the position of being the next boo-bird target. Let the kid develop, at a pace NBA coaches are far more experienced at than any of us.
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planetmars wrote: View PostJV is being treated like Kanter was in Utah. The excuse there though was that there were other bigs in the rotation taking all the minutes away from him (Millsap and AJ). The Raptors don't have that excuse.
I really don't like Casey as a coach for this team.
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I think some Raptors fans are so use to developing raw, inferior natural talents into marketing cornerstones that when a real talent comes along they don't understand how to make real talent flourish.
In this case not only is it real talent it is a young man who has had the weight of his entire country on his shoulders since he was 16. A real talent who is often spoken in the same breath of one of the greatest to ever walk the planet in sabonis in his home country. I don't think raptors fans can put any pressure he has not experienced before. In fact I wonder if spending 8 months of he year in Toronto is a welcome escape?
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostI don't think it's all about wanting to force-feed him touches. I think you're overreacting to a pretty simple observation from the preseason. JV is looked off way too much by the other guys on the team. This has nothing to do with wanting to force his development. For me, I just want the team to play smart, basic basketball. If Jonas has his man pinned and is something like 6-8 ft from the basket....Well, yes, I want them to try and feed it to him, because a big man (just about any big man, including many backups in the league) taking a shot from that area is one of the easiest ways to get offense in all of basketball.
I'm talking about development, which he needs, with DEFENSE being the #1 focus, and until he progresses a lot further than where he's at on that end, I would be asking him to focus on that, and I wouldn't be designing the offense around him,,,, YET. Step 1: DEFENSE.
And Matt52, yeah, he's used to pressure. Okay, now let's talk about what you want him developing first. D or O? If you're going to try and justify BOTH, don't bother.
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p00ka wrote: View PostI'm long past basketball 101 lessons, and I'm not "overreacting" to anything. I'm talking about the DEVELOPMENT of a 21 year old Lithuanian, and my opinion that all the people who've been chanting DEFENSE FIRST in one form or another should perhaps be talking of JV's defensive development needs FIRST, because he's got a ways to go to even be average in the NBA, instead of harping on him not being fed the ball enough. Where are all these defense first people? All I hear is "he needs more touches".
I'm talking about development, which he needs, with DEFENSE being the #1 focus, and until he progresses a lot further than where he's at on that end, I would be asking him to focus on that, and I wouldn't be designing the offense around him,,,, YET. Step 1: DEFENSE.
And Matt52, yeah, he's used to pressure. Okay, now let's talk about what you want him developing first. D or O? If you're going to try and justify BOTH, don't bother.
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