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Chisholm: Raps Wings Not Longterm Solution with JV

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  • #16
    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Ultimately, its the coaches job to say "Suck it up and be a professional"; and I don't see Demar or Rudy doing anything but.
    If it helps the team win, I can't imagine either of them flinching at giving JV a few more shots.

    But assuming either one were a prima donna, and complains about their shots, thats when you ship them out.
    Again, this is only talking about re-alocating shots. If we're talking spacing, financials, etc. then fine.
    But Chisholms was mostly concerned about where JVs shots were going to come from, and I feel like thats up to the Coach. Not the GM.
    No deal, don't wait for them to force the decision, cause if they do then the league knows it and you end up with Aaron and Eric Williams for your best player.

    Proactive moves please.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • #17
      Mediumcore wrote: View Post
      Chisolm's article is pretty much on the money. Only way to get JV more touches is to move one of the wings. Only thing I would add is that it's no urgency to get JV his touches this season and if Gay walks then problem solved. My preferance right now though would be to move Demar instead of Gay.
      This right here. I don't see the urgency this season to get JV a ton of touches, he's still a bit raw, as preseason and international play this summer showed. At the end of the season the problem will solve itself even without a Gay trade because Gay will most likely opt out to get a bigger FA payday.

      If Gay is moved then his replacement is ideally a defensive small forward who needs a lot less touches on offense. That's why trading Gay for MKG seems really appealing to me. He's already strong defensively, needs minimal touches on offense, and could develop with the rest of the team. Makes sense for Charlotte too since they went all in on trying to get better and signed Jefferson to that huge deal. Swapping MKG for Gay gets them firmly into playoff contention, and would be the best Bobcat team ever.

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      • #18
        In Memphis, ZBo, Gasol and Gay were able to get their own shots (i.e. 11+ attempts each).

        Theoretically speaking, the trio of DeRozan, Gay and Jonas should be able to do the same, with a little re-allocation mandated by the coaching staff like Joey suggested.

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        • #19
          Axel wrote: View Post
          No deal, don't wait for them to force the decision, cause if they do then the league knows it and you end up with Aaron and Eric Williams for your best player.
          I don't see either one raising a stink to the media if they each take 4 less shots per game.
          Like I said, if it results in more wins, I can't imagine either would have a problem with it.

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          • #20
            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
            I don't see either one raising a stink to the media if they each take 4 less shots per game.
            Like I said, if it results in more wins, I can't imagine either would have a problem with it.
            Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gay complain. Demar, never. He's a trooper. But Gay has already been marginalized for the bigs for most of his career, does he really want to see it happen again? To an unproven sophomore? I worry about his reaction.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • #21
              Axel wrote: View Post
              Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gay complain. Demar, never. He's a trooper. But Gay has already been marginalized for the bigs for most of his career, does he really want to see it happen again? To an unproven sophomore? I worry about his reaction.
              Even if Gay didn't complain (he most assuredly would), the whole point of having Gay on your team is to let him bear the offensive load and take 17 shots a game (he's done that every year except his rookie season). Gay's main value as a player is being a volume scorer, so if you don't want that in your SF, then you should move him for someone who fits the offense you're trying to run.

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              • #22
                joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                Ultimately, its the coaches job to say "Suck it up and be a professional"; and I don't see Demar or Rudy doing anything but.
                If it helps the team win, I can't imagine either of them flinching at giving JV a few more shots.

                But assuming either one were a prima donna, and complains about their shots, thats when you ship them out.
                Again, this is only talking about re-alocating shots. If we're talking spacing, financials, etc. then fine.
                But Chisholms was mostly concerned about where JVs shots were going to come from, and I feel like thats up to the Coach. Not the GM.
                I would like to see Casey take charge with this team as well, and is why I would have loved to see a coach with a strong personality a la Poppovich here one day (George Karl, Van Gundy etc..), but that is another thread all together.

                Dealing with the here and now, we know Lowry and Casey had some issues last season because Lowry wasn't very happy with Casey was asking of him, and frankly with all this talk from Gay and DeMar about how unstoppable their offense is I just don't see them as the giving type. Those guys are the alpha males on this team and (imo) they have it in their heads that they are an elite tandem. I don't see them differing to anyone and in a league of prima donna's I'm not sure how they would feel about giving up the ball to the beta's of the group.

                The othe side of the coin is that if they do give up the ball then how effective are they? Volume shooters need volume shots to be effective. Jamal Crawford comes off the bench and he knows he has the green light to take as many shots as he wants. You take that ability away from him and he's no longer the 6th man of the year candidate he consistently has been.

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                • #23
                  Primer wrote: View Post
                  Even if Gay didn't complain (he most assuredly would), the whole point of having Gay on your team is to let him bear the offensive load and take 17 shots a game (he's done that every year except his rookie season). Gay's main value as a player is being a volume scorer, so if you don't want that in your SF, then you should move him for someone who fits the offense you're trying to run.
                  Wow, I just replied about him being a volume scorer as well. Totally agree and I think it applies to DD as well.

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                  • #24
                    ceez wrote: View Post
                    Chisholm is spot on. team needs more 3 point shooting, less iso/long 2 ball.
                    which is exactly what they have been doing less of lately given the sample size. This article is based on last season play not what they have been doing every game thus far this pre season.

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                    • #25
                      As a new comer to the Raptors, following Hansbrough from Indy, it has not taken long for me to see that a power forward or center no matter what the name is basically useless to this team as an offensive weapon for the team seems to be built around a concept that places an emphasis on outside jump shooters and drives to the basket by the same guys doing the outside shooting. I heard so much about JV over the summer but I have seen next to no attempts to utilize him as a scorer. I had hopes also for Tyler coming here but he gets the same treatment if not worse than JV. As good a game as Tyler had last game scoring 10 points he only put up 3 shots and if not for offensive rebounds and thus free throws he shot it wouldn't have been much of a game for him. I see the exact same thing with JV. There is a great difference between the Raptors and Pacers in their approach to the game. My observation so far be it right or wrong is that the Raptors are a 3 man team offensively versus Indy where it was a 4 to 5 man team.

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                      • #26
                        This is purely anecdotal but I had the chance to attend one preseason game in person and have watched the rest, and Val has shown a lot of visible frustration at being looked off on various post ups and rolls, often as a result of wings just not being comfortable with passing angles and choosing instead to send the ball back around the top. Part of that is probably Val's positioning and ability to fight for position needing work, part of it is that the Raps wings are simply not good passers. Just wanted to mention it.

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                        • #27
                          slaw wrote: View Post
                          ...One thing I did find interesting, JV is actually averaging fewer shots per game in the pre-season than last year (post-trade) and that's with Derozan and Gay playing reduced pre-season minutes....
                          I would attribute that to reserves trying to make their mark. Buycks seems like a younger version of Lucas, only he shoots more. How is JV going to get shots when there are no passes, only long rebounds out to the opponents wings?

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                          • #28
                            Puffer wrote: View Post
                            I would attribute that to reserves trying to make their mark. Buycks seems like a younger version of Lucas, only he shoots more. How is JV going to get shots when there are no passes, only long rebounds out to the opponents wings?
                            LOL, fair enough. Although, I didn't think Alan Anderson would throw up the number of shot he did last year and not only did he continue to do it all year, the coaches seemed to encourage it by rolling him out there. So, it's a good point, I just hope it doesn't carry on into the year.

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                            • #29
                              joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                              But like I said above, why does anyone need to be traded in order to get JV more shots? Its the coach that draws up the plays, not the players. If coach wants more shots for JV, then JV will get more shots.

                              If its a matter of spacing and shooting, then fine. But I don't buy into the whole notion that you need to trade players in order to free up shots. With Demar and Rudy shooting less often, its likely they'll be getting better, more efficient shots anyway.
                              More shots for JV will lead to double teams down low which can lead to open looks for 3. Coaching and play selection are critical.

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                              • #30
                                I don't like how Casey uses our bigs, outside of crashing the offensive boards, rebounding and dunks they aren't part of the offensive game plan. At the start of training-camp Casey said that he doesn't expect Jonas to be used any differently than he was used last year. So, don't expect many plays being run for him. I've been more concerned that Amir has completely disappeared from the offense.

                                Although, I don't like how our bigs are used, the biggest change we need is for Lowry to be featured more in the offense again. If this team is to be successful Lowry needs to average 2+ 3's a game.
                                -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
                                -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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