There is an elephant in the room and his name is Rudy

[mcHAPPY]

A forgotten but very important piece of the equation:

Gay will make $17.8 million this season and has a player option for next season ($19.3 million) — at age 27 he is expected to opt out, become a free agent and seek the security of a longer deal. The Raptors can offer five years, other teams four.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...being-patient/

Suddenly Gay might be faced with this possibility: opt out and sign elsewhere for 4 years and $52M ($13M/per) or sign in Toronto for 5 years and $57.5M ($11.5/per).

Would be the same type situation in 2014-15 if he picked up his option for next season.


Also, any team trading for him would have this same option. Suddenly a team like Charlotte might have interest in giving up some assets to land him knowing they can offer than extra year no one else can.

[mcHAPPY]

I think the key to getting good value for Gay, if he is traded, is going to be making Detroit and Charlotte bid against each other.

Both are teams that have considerable cap space this summer.

Detroit was interested over the summer.... although with Josh Smith hitting 3's now are they still interested?

Charlotte has Jefferson inside, Kemba at the point, a SG similar to DD in Henderson (GH would likely thrive similar to DD with Gay's presence), lots of youth for organic growth (Biyombo, MKG, Zeller), and solid role players (McBobber, Sessions).

Both are teams looking to win now.

Charlotte owns Detroits pick. If Detroit got Gay, that would certainly be bad for Charlotte.

Both are bubble teams like Toronto and by one of them acquiring Gay that team could leapfrog the other two.

Whichever team trades for him will have the leverage of that 5th year - which may or may not make a difference. It didn't for Howard.


Just thinking out loud.

[magoon]

I think the key to getting good value for Gay, if he is traded, is going to be making Detroit and Charlotte bid against each other.

And Cleveland. Cleveland only has $36 million guaranteed next year on the books and no small forward and they can't wait forever for LeBron.

[mcHAPPY]

And Cleveland. Cleveland only has $36 million guaranteed next year on the books and no small forward and they can't wait forever for LeBron.

If it was a team option, I'd say absolutely. But I don't think they are going to add any salary that could prohibit them from making a run at LBJ.

[white men can't jump]

If it was a team option, I'd say absolutely. But I don't think they are going to add any salary that could prohibit them from making a run at LBJ.

But does anyone really think LeBron will opt out? More specifically that he'd even leave Miami? I don't see them fading from contention in the next couple of years. And Wade or Bosh are both still massive trade chips if they want a shakeup, and they actually have some trade-able assets on the roster beyond that, though less valuable, like Haslem, Chalmers, Allen, Battier. There's always a decent market for veteran role players with championship experience.

*Yes, Cleveland has Kyrie Irving, and is still his hometown, but he's on a proven winner right now, that shouldn't have a hard time maintaining that kind of team.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

They have to improve really fast or they are pretty much fucked. We wont survive the month with the way they are playing. I really don't think Gay and Demar (I guess demar was fine because he was hot) in general should take 23 shots each. That is just terrible. Seriously? 46 shots from 2 players and one that was ice cold?

vs Boston - W
@ Hawks - L
@ Bucks
vs Heat
@ Bobcats

@ Pacers
vs Jazz
@ Rockets
@ Grizz
vs Bulls

vs Blazers
@ 76ers
vs Wiz
vs Nets
vs Heat

Unless something groundbreaking happens and Casey changes and Gay and Demar stop playing retarded when they are cold we'll be essentially out of the playoff with the hole we'll put ourselves in. At that point we might as well just trade Gay/Lowry for whatever the fuck we can get for them and tank.

If it was a team option, I'd say absolutely. But I don't think they are going to add any salary that could prohibit them from making a run at LBJ.

With the way Lebron left and the owner called him out. I really don't see Cleveland wanting Lebron back.

[mcHAPPY]

Here is another reason why I think the Raptors have to trade Rudy.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...VP-For-October

Bulls need cap space to sign Mirotic. This summer, he no longer qualifies for his rookie deal. Bulls can only sign him with cap space.

Keeping Boozer, Bulls have no cap space. If they are a tax team next year they hit the repeater tax.

If Raptors trade Gay to, say Charlotte, for Gordon (expiring) and 1 first round pick, on draft night they could acquire Boozer straight up with no salary going back. So the question becomes would Chicago trade Charlotte's pick (and lets get greedy, their own 2014 or 2015 pick) for $16.8M in cap space? Of course they can do that with the amnesty clause as well, so maybe a better question is: are giving up picks worth $16.8M?

[JawsGT]

My thoughts on Rudy are trade him. I think MU will do this before the season ends, and will do it regardless of how this team plays, or how Rudy himself plays. I do not doubt that MU is hoping Rudy has a great season and elevates his trade value. He is definitely going to have to improve his play if he is to have a future on this team. I have a strange feeling he will end up in Houston - don't ask me how cause I don't know. And if I'm in Houston I'm not looking at Rudy with Parsons there, but something tells me they want another big name down there, and outside of Rudy the only name that pops in my head that they may want is Rondo. I'm thinking either a PG or SF, no need to upgrade the PF or C with Howard and Asik there (even if Asik is moved), or the SG spot with Harden there. What I'm thinking here is that Rudy would smell championships in Houston, and would probably resign there for less money than other places if necessary. So Houston may take a chance on trading for him anticipating that he would resign and contend for championships for the foreseeable future. Now chew that up fans!!

[Axel]

My thoughts on Rudy are trade him. I think MU will do this before the season ends, and will do it regardless of how this team plays, or how Rudy himself plays. I do not doubt that MU is hoping Rudy has a great season and elevates his trade value. He is definitely going to have to improve his play if he is to have a future on this team. I have a strange feeling he will end up in Houston - don't ask me how cause I don't know. And if I'm in Houston I'm not looking at Rudy with Parsons there, but something tells me they want another big name down there, and outside of Rudy the only name that pops in my head that they may want is Rondo. I'm thinking either a PG or SF, no need to upgrade the PF or C with Howard and Asik there (even if Asik is moved), or the SG spot with Harden there. What I'm thinking here is that Rudy would smell championships in Houston, and would probably resign there for less money than other places if necessary. So Houston may take a chance on trading for him anticipating that he would resign and contend for championships for the foreseeable future. Now chew that up fans!!

Asik at the PF has been terrible for the Rockets. Asik and Howard can't play together. If Houston makes a deal, it will be to solve the PF problem.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

My thoughts on Rudy are trade him. I think MU will do this before the season ends, and will do it regardless of how this team plays, or how Rudy himself plays. I do not doubt that MU is hoping Rudy has a great season and elevates his trade value. He is definitely going to have to improve his play if he is to have a future on this team. I have a strange feeling he will end up in Houston - don't ask me how cause I don't know. And if I'm in Houston I'm not looking at Rudy with Parsons there, but something tells me they want another big name down there, and outside of Rudy the only name that pops in my head that they may want is Rondo. I'm thinking either a PG or SF, no need to upgrade the PF or C with Howard and Asik there (even if Asik is moved), or the SG spot with Harden there. What I'm thinking here is that Rudy would smell championships in Houston, and would probably resign there for less money than other places if necessary. So Houston may take a chance on trading for him anticipating that he would resign and contend for championships for the foreseeable future. Now chew that up fans!!

I wonder if Houston would consider playing Gay at PF, between Howard & Parsons?

It would take Asik & Lin to make the trade work, so it's likely that other team(s) would need to be involved. Who knows, stranger things have happened, especially for a team in win-now mode.

[JawsGT]

I wonder if Houston would consider playing Gay at PF, between Howard & Parsons?

It would take Asik & Lin to make the trade work, so it's likely that other team(s) would need to be involved. Who knows, stranger things have happened, especially for a team in win-now mode.

Gay at the 4 would be interesting in Houston actually. I don't think they have a PF problem, they just have a PF they don't need with a beast like Howard anchoring the frontline. Asik will be traded I'm sure, but I don't expect the return on Asik to address the PF spot, rather it will be used to upgrade the SF or PG position. I just wonder if Houston would even look at Rudy considering what they get from Parsons. But, putting him at the 4 like you suggested makes this more plausible in my mind. With Howard, Gay, Parsons, and Harden, a dominant PG like Rondo wouldn't be necessary either. Interesting...

[magoon]

A thought that has occurred to me recently is that perhaps we should consider Denver as a potential landing spot for Rudy. The Nuggets are most certainly not tanking, Kenneth Faried is reportedly not happy in Denver, Denver has a decent trade exception left over from the Andre Iguodala sign-and-trade that would make acquiring Rudy easier, and Denver will have a first-rounder in 2014 - whichever is the more valuable pick of theirs and New York's (the less valuable one goes to Orlando).

Something along the lines of Rudy for Faried, Dorell Arthur, Denver's remaining first-rounder and the Iggy exception for Rudy and maybe Quincy Acy.

[mcHAPPY]

A thought that has occurred to me recently is that perhaps we should consider Denver as a potential landing spot for Rudy. The Nuggets are most certainly not tanking, Kenneth Faried is reportedly not happy in Denver, Denver has a decent trade exception left over from the Andre Iguodala sign-and-trade that would make acquiring Rudy easier, and Denver will have a first-rounder in 2014 - whichever is the more valuable pick of theirs and New York's (the less valuable one goes to Orlando).

Something along the lines of Rudy for Faried, Dorell Arthur, Denver's remaining first-rounder and the Iggy exception for Rudy and maybe Quincy Acy.

No it would not.

An exception must be able to take the entire contract.

For example, if the exception is $13M you can only take up to a $13M contract in return (although I think there is a +$100K rule there). Denver's exception is just under $10M according to ESPN trade machine.

[planetmars]

I think Denver is lottery bound. Their bread and butter is their home court, and they are already 0-2 at home (small sample size). Not sure they would want Gay.. and even if they did I don't see the salaries that would come back that could also ultimately include a 1st rounder.

Something like McGee+Chandler would work but then you are stuck with McGee's contract for 3 years.

If you don't want a pick then something like Lawson+Chandler for Gay+Lowry would work... with Lowry using up Denver's TPE.

Lawson would be the prize there.. not a bad trade in my opinion but you don't get a pick or a prospect. Chandler however is day to day with a pulled hammy and has yet to play a single game this season. Chandler also has 3 years left on his contract.