Casey: I think DeMar DeRozan can become that superstar

[Axel]

I don't even know where to start. Dirk, Chauncey (already mentioned), Joe Johnson, Nash (already mentioned)...Kobe took a while to peak (2.5 years), other than rebounds Boogie Cousins isn't demonstrably better than DeMar (obviously these are straight numbers and don't include how much of a defensive beast Boogie is).

As long as the trend is to grab players as freshmen, or junior level pros from Europe it's going to take longer for NBA players to reach their peak. That doesn't include late bloomers like Nash and Billups. Can DeMar become a star? Sure, he's young enough. He has the mentality and demeanor of a player who demands improvement. It is possible. Likely? That's another story, but the idea shouldn't be taken lightly.

As far as this nonsense that Ross is better than DeMar. First let see Ross have a run of 10 games where in at least 8 of those games he doesn't completely disappear before we have this debate. Ross hasn't earned the right to even be spoken of as better than Landry Fields, let alone DeMar yet.

Finally, the Celtics game was not really that close. If Casey called a timeout to stop that 3rd quarter run that whole point of argument does not exist. Please don't confuse poor coaching with poor play. Also, despite a positive +- a large amount of that happened because DJ Augustin disappeared defensively in the 3rd. Why Casey didn't sub in Lowry for a short spell to steady things is a mystery.

Casey may get fired mid-season with a winning record with his nonsense. The Raps aren't a vet team. He can't expect them to shift momentum without a timeout. It's not the Mavs team he assisted, or the Spurs. The only player capable of that sort of play is Rudy, and he doesn't run plays. You need the right type of point guard and vet players to do that. DJ can't change pace, and the only players on the Raps brave enough to call for the ball in that scenario are JV, Gay, and DeRozan. Only Gay was on the floor. DJ was incapable of getting it to him...Also, why does Casey go 10 deep? That's ridiculous.

Ahh...sorry for the tangent.

While I agree that Casey probably should have used a time-out, I don't think you can correlate that into poor coaching. Phil Jackson used to say that early in the season he'd let his guys "play through it" to see how they respond. It says a lot about the players if they can settle themselves down without burning a timeout. Better to learn that in game 1 than game 82 with playoffs on the line.

[connected]

but if you look at it from a different perspective and if they are looking to trade him this year --- these comments don't hurt

[mcHAPPY]

I don't even know where to start. Dirk, Chauncey (already mentioned), Joe Johnson, Nash (already mentioned)...Kobe took a while to peak (2.5 years), other than rebounds Boogie Cousins isn't demonstrably better than DeMar (obviously these are straight numbers and don't include how much of a defensive beast Boogie is).

As long as the trend is to grab players as freshmen, or junior level pros from Europe it's going to take longer for NBA players to reach their peak. That doesn't include late bloomers like Nash and Billups. Can DeMar become a star? Sure, he's young enough. He has the mentality and demeanor of a player who demands improvement. It is possible. Likely? That's another story, but the idea shouldn't be taken lightly.

As far as this nonsense that Ross is better than DeMar. First let see Ross have a run of 10 games where in at least 8 of those games he doesn't completely disappear before we have this debate. Ross hasn't earned the right to even be spoken of as better than Landry Fields, let alone DeMar yet.

Finally, the Celtics game was not really that close. If Casey called a timeout to stop that 3rd quarter run that whole point of argument does not exist. Please don't confuse poor coaching with poor play. Also, despite a positive +- a large amount of that happened because DJ Augustin disappeared defensively in the 3rd. Why Casey didn't sub in Lowry for a short spell to steady things is a mystery.

Casey may get fired mid-season with a winning record with his nonsense. The Raps aren't a vet team. He can't expect them to shift momentum without a timeout. It's not the Mavs team he assisted, or the Spurs. The only player capable of that sort of play is Rudy, and he doesn't run plays. You need the right type of point guard and vet players to do that. DJ can't change pace, and the only players on the Raps brave enough to call for the ball in that scenario are JV, Gay, and DeRozan. Only Gay was on the floor. DJ was incapable of getting it to him...Also, why does Casey go 10 deep? That's ridiculous.

Ahh...sorry for the tangent.

Joe Johnson showed from year 3 (23 years) on he was special as a 4th option. In his 5th year he went to Atlanta and became the man. DD has been the man for the better part of 3 seasons.

Dirk showed he was special from year 3 onwards at 22/23 years of age.

Kobe came in to the league straight out of high school. From year 3 onwards (21 years) he showed he was pretty special (equivalent of DD year 2).

I don't think BIllups is a superstar talent but he certainly showed incredible improvements through his mid to late 20's so I can live with that one.

[iblastoff]

If DeMar got the calls that Harden, Durant and prime Wade got he would be easily putting 25 ppg efficiently a night.

If Harden never got calls would he really be that great? yes cause he can handle the ball run offense and shoot the 3, but he wouldnt be such a scoring power house. for a 2 guard DeMar is really big to make up for non calls the guy is finishing through contact now.

i agree with this. i watched the OKC vs jazz game and durant put up 42 points with over 22 of those from the FT line. otherwise he shot like shit (9/24) and 2/8 from downtown. the calls he was getting though were ridiculous! every single little touch while going up was being called.

[Axel]

i agree with this. i watched the OKC vs jazz game and durant put up 42 points with over 22 of those from the FT line. otherwise he shot like shit (9/24) and 2/8 from downtown. the calls he was getting though were ridiculous! every single little touch while going up was being called.

KD forces the refs to make the calls with his aggression attacking the rim. Players who settle for pull-up jumpers tend to not get the calls.

[Rapstor4Life]

DeMar doesnt really settle for pull ups he has no choice after driving into the paint 6 consecutive possessions getting beaten on with no calls lots of players would just say fuck it and start taking pull ups can you really blame the guy?

Raps play games and by Q2 DeMar's nose is bleeding yet theres no f/ts on his boxscore. Star treatment, if he gets it, the guy is a completely different player.

[Axel]

DeMar doesnt really settle for pull ups he has no choice after driving into the paint 6 consecutive possessions getting beaten on with no calls lots of players would just say fuck it and start taking pull ups can you really blame the guy?

Raps play games and by Q2 DeMar's nose is bleeding yet theres no f/ts on his boxscore. Star treatment, if he gets it, the guy is a completely different player.

Yes, I can blame the guy. That's a slippery slope towards Vince Carter play. I thought LA guys were tough? You want the calls, go up strong looking to finish instead of looking for the call (something he's been guilty of the last few years). You get paid millions to play the game, so play it right.

[iblastoff]

KD forces the refs to make the calls with his aggression attacking the rim. Players who settle for pull-up jumpers tend to not get the calls.

well i was just talking about those opening games for both players specifically.

from what i saw, DD was just as aggressive to the rim in the boston game relative to durants performance, except DD got only one call. obviously we're talking super small sample size here but durants chart:


vs derozan:


obviously this is super small sample size with no real meaning. but hey i'm at home recovering from surgery so what else am i going to do?

[Axel]

well i was just talking about those opening games for both players specifically.

from what i saw, DD was just as aggressive to the rim in the boston game relative to durants performance, except DD got only one call. obviously we're talking super small sample size here but durants chart:


vs derozan:


obviously this is super small sample size with no real meaning. but hey i'm at home recovering from surgery so what else am i going to do?

Go over every Demar shot from his career and determine how many shots he has taken that are "poor decisions"

[special1]

Yes, I can blame the guy. That's a slippery slope towards Vince Carter play. I thought LA guys were tough? You want the calls, go up strong looking to finish instead of looking for the call (something he's been guilty of the last few years). You get paid millions to play the game, so play it right.

You should probably let go of this obvious irrational hate of Demar's game. If you want the team to tank, that's fine. BUT don't pretend like you want us to start winning all of a sudden. BTW - check out my avatar.....what do you think? Is that going up strong and looking to finish or what??

[Letter N]

well i was just talking about those opening games for both players specifically.

from what i saw, DD was just as aggressive to the rim in the boston game relative to durants performance, except DD got only one call. obviously we're talking super small sample size here but durants chart:

Durant is a poor comparison since Durant is one of the best shooters in the game, he doesn't need to drive to score efficiently.

A better comparison would be players like Dwyane Wade, Monte Ellis, even Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook as they're players who are poor 3-point shooters but can score a lot of points by taking it at the defence.

[blackjitsu]

Just did a double-take. Am I missing some sarcasm here? If not, you obviously haven't watched Boogie beyond the highlight reels. He's an awful, awful defender.

Wait, are you saying Boogie is worse than DeMar on Defense? (falls off chair). There's a reason why he's on all my fantasy teams. I think you're missing the big picture -- he alters shots, is good for 2 steals a game, excellent rebounder, gets a couple blocks a game... I suspect that you do not watch Boogie Cousins play...or look at his stats., or listen to the boat-load of analysts who praise the kid...

While I agree that Casey probably should have used a time-out, I don't think you can correlate that into poor coaching. Phil Jackson used to say that early in the season he'd let his guys "play through it" to see how they respond. It says a lot about the players if they can settle themselves down without burning a timeout. Better to learn that in game 1 than game 82 with playoffs on the line.

I explained this deeper into my quote -- look at the number of vets Phil had. Letting players play out of runs only works when the coach has vets to lean on. When that run happened the only vet capable of doing that was Rudy Gay. In fact, the only player on the Raps with enough in game experience to do that is Rudy -- and he does not run plays, can only make plays if the ball is given to him. Casey fails at the root of coaching #1: Know your personnel.

Joe Johnson showed from year 3 (23 years) on he was special as a 4th option. In his 5th year he went to Atlanta and became the man. DD has been the man for the better part of 3 seasons.

Dirk showed he was special from year 3 onwards at 22/23 years of age.

Kobe came in to the league straight out of high school. From year 3 onwards (21 years) he showed he was pretty special (equivalent of DD year 2).

I don't think BIllups is a superstar talent but he certainly showed incredible improvements through his mid to late 20's so I can live with that one.

Well (hold your laughter for a sec), DeMar showed promise last year -- that would fit your trend. Also, I strongly disagree that DeMar has ever been showcased as "the man" on the Raps. That space has always been held by Bargnani. Last year was the first year that DeMar was more than a 3rd option on the Raps. Other than the trip to London, DeMar had never been higher than option 1 Bargs, option 2 name the PG of the day ... Heck Barbosa was higher up the totem pole... That's why when Bargs went down the Raps were always in disarray -- there were no plays designed for anyone else. Last year changed that. And DeMar did his highly inefficient thing. By the way, still more efficient than Bargs in the same role.

I'm not saying he will become a star, but I just don't think that it's an idea that shouldn't (edit) be scoffed or laughed at.

[c_bcm]

Agreed. This is just Casey being a pseudo father and praising/motivating his kid.

Not only that, but it keeps positive press around our players, which can only help trade values. Now if only fan sites would clue into this as well.....

[BallaBalla]

The underlined part is the problem for a lot of fans. It's the same sort of false hope and unfair expectations that were heaped on Bargnani. DC can talk about DeRozan being a good player, a good kid and having the right attitude and approach, with a drive to get even better. DC can talk about DeRozan being a key piece of the puzzle for the Raptors and an integral part of the team's core, in terms of success this season. DC doesn't need to mention DeRozan as a superstar or becoming a superstar... that's overselling and creating unnecessary hype/pressure. Even the biggest DeRozan fanboys have to accept that he'll never be a superstar, even if he continues to improve, so why create unrealistic expectations that will only fuel the anti-DeRozan fire?

DeRozan, just like Bargnani, should never have been mentioned as anything more than a #3 option at best. Unfortunately, Bargnani was hyped up and promoted as the face of the post-Bosh franchise and declared the #1 option for several seasons, which was way beyond anything that should ever have been reasonably expected of him. I feared the Raptors were doing the same thing with DeRozan last year; at least acquiring Gay bumped him down to #2. DeRozan is a solid #3 option, but seems to have neither the game or personality to be 'the guy', which is absolutely critical to be a true superstar in the NBA.

Exactly....It's funny that this was posted because I was just talking to a buddy about how if I were to choose one player to trade (or not have on the team) it would be Derozan.

And I do blame the staff for making him believe that just because he spends a lot of time practicing, he should be playing 40 minutes a game and trading isolation plays with Rudy Gay.

you can quote me forever on this: We will never be a plus 500 team with DD in the starting lineup being used as he is today.

he is too disruptive, and simply not good enough

[Letter N]

I explained this deeper into my quote -- look at the number of vets Phil had. Letting players play out of runs only works when the coach has vets to lean on. When that run happened the only vet capable of doing that was Rudy Gay. In fact, the only player on the Raps with enough in game experience to do that is Rudy -- and he does not run plays, can only make plays if the ball is given to him. Casey fails at the root of coaching #1: Know your personnel.

This is an awful argument. It's like saying don't let your kid attempt a handstand unless he knows how to do a handstand. They gotta learn sometime and they're better off learning on soft sand (Game 1 vs the Celtics) than on concrete (playoff game vs the Heat).