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  • #76
    Burnit482 wrote: View Post
    It helps that Kevin Martin is an excellent 3 point shooter which is why he is getting more points per shot as well. Demar is just starting to incorporate this into his game and is still an on going process. If Demar is not getting to the line more than last season (I'm not looking at stats nor have the time at the point to do so.) He is definatley shooting them at a higher percentage this year and is the raptors best free throw shooter. Kevin Martin also has the ability of having two stars create open shots for him while demar is FORCED to create his own. Rudy can create but does not pass… Lowry dribbles around like a maniac, and we never throw ball in post to create open outside jumpers. So i take that point with a grain of salt. If we have Kevin Love Demars % goes up by at least 5%…

    I do not disagree about fighting through screens and i see it game in and game out. This is why we always struggle against the Kyle Korvers of the world. However something i've seen him and T-Ross do a lot more this year is come help on drives and get into the paint then explode out and contest the 3pt shot. Cant ask for much more in that situation. He is by no means a great defender but i would say he is good - average defender.
    Ok, even without Kevin Martin as a comparison, scoring 226 points on 203 shots, when a basket is worth at least 2 points is terrible. When Demar's value is comprised entirely of his ability to score (since he doesn't rebound, defend or create for others), he has to do it well. So far, he scores a lot only because of high volume shooting. That doesn't make him a good scorer.

    Demar is getting to the line at 5.5 FTA per game. His last 2 seasons, he averaged 5.3 and 5.2, so not really a difference. He is shooting a nice 81.7% from the line, but that is actually down from last year 83.1% but is basically on par with his career average of 81.1%.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • #77
      Someone please explain how DeMar DeRozan is better than 2005/06 Mike James:



      Link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...per_game::none

      What's the point? Many players in the NBA could put up similar (and better) scoring numbers given the no-questions-asked green light that DeMar's been given.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • #78
        DeMar's only 23! He's got POTENTIAL!

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        • #79
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          DeMar's only 23! He's got POTENTIAL!
          Sadly he is now 24.

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          • #80
            S.R. wrote: View Post
            Someone please explain how DeMar DeRozan is better than 2005/06 Mike James:



            Link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...per_game::none

            What's the point? Many players in the NBA could put up similar (and better) scoring numbers given the no-questions-asked green light that DeMar's been given.
            Wow.

            That puts things in perspective.

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            • #81
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Sadly he is now 24.
              Ok, fine.

              He LOVES TORONTO!

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              • #82
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                I see the stats and I see his game as I watch all the games.

                I think we just have a difference of opinions on what is a good player.
                I respect that and do think he's a good player. Not great not a star but i do see the likely possibility of that.

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                • #83
                  Burnit482 wrote: View Post
                  I respect that and do think he's a good player. Not great not a star but i do see the likely possibility of that.
                  Can you elaborate on why you think "likely possibility" based on this year? I haven't seen him improve an area and may have regressed in some, so I'm curious as to what you are specifically hanging your hat on.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • #84
                    It doesn't matter if we're looking to a high draft pick or a spot in the playoffs, Masai has to make some huge changes. Demar and Rudy - at least one of them must be traded because they're too similar. Trading one of our wings would give a chance to T-Ross, who shoes improvement in defense which we are lack of. Masai has to decide if Lowry is the right PG for the Raptors. And let's not forget about D. Casey... So, like I said, these decisions have to be made no matter what's our future plans and have to be made as soon as possible.
                    (Sorry for poor English )

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                    • #85
                      I like the idea of DeMar being a 3rd/4th option scorer somewhat like the role that Harrison Barnes or Andre Iguodala (scoring-wise) is playing for Golden State right now. What I'm not a fan of is him throwing up 18.5 shots per game (the only players that have any business shooting that much are Durant and LeBron imo).

                      Luckily for us, DeMar is actually paid like a 3rd or 4th option on a contending team, and at a flat rate as well. Additionally he's only 24 so he could stick with the team through a 2-3 year rebuild and still just be entering his prime years.

                      The catch here is bringing in a coach that can implement a proper offensive system that maximizes the strengths of players while minimizing their weaknesses. DeMar should only be taking about 10 FGA per game, and 90% of these should either be corner threes (he's shooting 7-10 from there so far this year, that will obviously drop but he's effective from those spots), short-jumpers (within 15 feet) or layups/dunks.

                      All of a sudden you're going to see that FG% creep closer to 50%, and combined with free throw attempts he's putting up 15ppg on 10 shots per game with a mid-high 50s true shooting percentage (ie. a valuable, efficient offensive player that puts pressure on the defense).

                      Another thing that isn't being factored in is the fact that taking close to 20 shots per game actually takes a physical toll on a player (people don't realize it but it expends a lot of energy). I think with DD cutting his shots in half essentially, the coach could easily demand more from him in other areas, there's no reason why he couldn't grab 5 boards per game, 3-4 assists and play solid team defense.

                      Maybe this isn't the popular opinion, but I don't think DeMar is one of the guys that needs to be traded for us to rebuild. Unlike Gay, I could see him being more impressionable and willing to take a lesser role on a good team. Plus DeMar DeRozan the 3rd/4th option sounds like a pretty damn good player especially with the right coach and system in place.

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                      • #86
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        The only thing DeRozan does is score. He had one game against Chicago when the game was already decided where he scored anything remotely efficient.

                        His eFG% on year is 43.8% (worse than last season)
                        His TS% on the year is 49.5% (worse than last season)

                        For perspective the average NBA SG is 50% and 54.9%.

                        DeRozan is a guy who is a scorer but not a very efficient one, a poor rebounder especially given his size advantage at SG, a poor creator, and a poor defender. Yes, he is finally showing what he can be but more importantly what he is.
                        LOL - small sample size.....he played 11 games and will likely improve on those numbers (i'm sure his numbers will be closer to his career average). Since you seem to approve of small sample sizes (i know you don't), I guess i should mention the fact that he now shoots over 35% from 3's so far this year. His handles have certainly looked a lot tighter than in the past as well. He seems stronger. Yet we still hear cries of no improvement from what i like to call haters.

                        I think if some posters don't want to be called haters, they should acknowledge some of the positives instead of spewing the same stuff over and over again from past years. OR stop cherry picking stats when the eye-test is much more reliable.

                        For example.... your post above implies (to me) that Demar actually regressed. However, we know that's simply not true. We see a more confident player than past years. Someone with better handles, more post moves, better range and more creating for his teammates. Obviously, he must continue to improve, but he's getting there. You have your opinion and i respectfully disagree with it.

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                        • #87
                          While I agree that DeMar has improved year-by-year (by slowly adding pieces to his game), his overall impact remains the same. Hence why you don't see the "haters" caring much about his improvements.

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                          • #88
                            Nosike wrote: View Post
                            I like the idea of DeMar being a 3rd/4th option scorer somewhat like the role that Harrison Barnes or Andre Iguodala (scoring-wise) is playing for Golden State right now. What I'm not a fan of is him throwing up 18.5 shots per game (the only players that have any business shooting that much are Durant and LeBron imo).

                            Luckily for us, DeMar is actually paid like a 3rd or 4th option on a contending team, and at a flat rate as well. Additionally he's only 24 so he could stick with the team through a 2-3 year rebuild and still just be entering his prime years.

                            The catch here is bringing in a coach that can implement a proper offensive system that maximizes the strengths of players while minimizing their weaknesses. DeMar should only be taking about 10 FGA per game, and 90% of these should either be corner threes (he's shooting 7-10 from there so far this year, that will obviously drop but he's effective from those spots), short-jumpers (within 15 feet) or layups/dunks.

                            All of a sudden you're going to see that FG% creep closer to 50%, and combined with free throw attempts he's putting up 15ppg on 10 shots per game with a mid-high 50s true shooting percentage (ie. a valuable, efficient offensive player that puts pressure on the defense).

                            Another thing that isn't being factored in is the fact that taking close to 20 shots per game actually takes a physical toll on a player (people don't realize it but it expends a lot of energy). I think with DD cutting his shots in half essentially, the coach could easily demand more from him in other areas, there's no reason why he couldn't grab 5 boards per game, 3-4 assists and play solid team defense.

                            Maybe this isn't the popular opinion, but I don't think DeMar is one of the guys that needs to be traded for us to rebuild. Unlike Gay, I could see him being more impressionable and willing to take a lesser role on a good team. Plus DeMar DeRozan the 3rd/4th option sounds like a pretty damn good player especially with the right coach and system in place.
                            I would be fine with this type of approach if DeRozan contributed in other areas, but he doesn't. After being one of the primary scorers on the team for the past three seasons, I can't see him being happy taking on a 3rd/4th scoring role. I think he's a little overpaid for that as well. If a wing is going to be such a low scoring option, he better be a star in other ways, such as defense, playing off the ball, rebounding or facilitating; unfortunately DeRozan is dreadful in all of those areas. His biggest problem is that he's proven to be so one-dimensional - scoring - and he just isn't very efficient when it comes to executing that one dimension.

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                            • #89
                              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              I would be fine with this type of approach if DeRozan contributed in other areas, but he doesn't.
                              Guys like Klay Thompson and Barnes were very effective for Golden State in that 3rd/4th option role despite not doing much besides scoring (Barnes rebounds a little better). Plus there's no reason why DD wouldn't be able to rebound closer to his rookie rate (5 per game) if he was taking about the same number of shots per 36 (11 FGA). I see nothing wrong with an efficient 15-5-3 guy as the 3rd or 4th best player on a contender, but hey maybe that's just me.

                              After being one of the primary scorers on the team for the past three seasons, I can't see him being happy taking on a 3rd/4th scoring role. I think he's a little overpaid for that as well.
                              I don't think DeMar is an idiot also. If you brought in a superstar in the 2014 draft and maybe another star along the line (maybe Val develops into one as well), he'd be able to recognize that he's not the alpha-dog anymore. That also ties into having good coaching and system in place. Andre Iguodala was the alpha dog in Philadelphia, and is now the #3 or #4 guy in Golden State. Bosh was alpha dog in Toronto and is now the #3 guy. Any player that isn't a headcase will accept that role as long as the team is winning.

                              And he actually is not overpaid for being a 3rd/4th option on a contender. Here's how many players each current contender has that are paid more than him:

                              Brooklyn - 5 (DWill, Lopez, Pierce, Garnett, Johnson)
                              Chicago - 4 (Rose, Noah, Deng, Boozer)
                              Golden State - 4 (Bogut, Lee, Iguodala, Curry) --- with key guys like Klay/Barnes who will make more eventually
                              Houston - 2 (Harden, Howard) --- Parsons due to get paid this offseason, Lin/Asik make a touch less
                              Indiana - 4 (George, West, Hibbert, Granger) --- take out Granger if you want since he doesn't play, so 3, Hill makes 8M
                              LAC - 3 (Paul, Griffin, DeAndre)
                              Miami - 3 (Wade, LBJ, Bosh)
                              OKC - 3 (Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka)
                              San Antonio - 3 (Duncan, Parker, Splitter)

                              If a wing is going to be such a low scoring option, he better be a start in other ways, such as defense, playing off the ball, rebounding and facilitating; unfortunately DeRozan is dreadful in all of those areas. His biggest problem is that he's proven to be so one-dimensional - scoring - and he just isn't very efficient when it comes to executing that one dimension.
                              DeRozan is actually not a bad defender, his defense is solid within a team system. He's just not a shut down guy. He's not efficient when scoring because he's taking way too many damn shots, that's why I want him taking 10-11 per game. That way he can ensure that the bulk of the shots he takes are actually good ones (going to the rim, open corner 3s or close-range jumpers).

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                              • #90
                                Sorry for getting us off topic about Demar i just hate how so few Raps fans see what this guy can do. Anyways the more i see these upcoming draft guys the more i want picks in this draft. Yes we've talked about how hard they are to acquire but i mean if raps got a top 6 pick id be jumping up and down because there is that much talent out there. Picks in the 10-20 range get me excited and say i want that guy on my team. At this point I'm willing to do just about anything to get as many 1st round picks in this draft as possible. i don't care where they are… to late picks could turn into a top 15 pick who knows.

                                Question would you trade JV for a top 5 pick? I really don't know my answer but i think I'm leaning yes.

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