Masai on The Fan - November 19

[mcHAPPY]

Actually, the fact his WS48 and PER are at career highs despite his eFG% and TS% being at career lows shows just how much he has improved outside of his scoring, as there is no way his scoring is the reason for above average advanced stats. It seems to me his advanced stats are up due to career highs in AST%, and STL% along with a career low in TO%, all while having a career high in usage%.

I would also argue that DD's shooting percentages will rise closer to his career average as the season goes on, but even if they didn't, he is a vastly improved player this season according to the advanced metrics.

Also, why is everyone ignoring what a good 3pt shooter Derozan has become? It was the big questions mark in the offseason for him and he has come and produced beyond my wildest expectations shooting over 35% on 3.4 attempts per game.

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players...%93&player_ids[]=318&season=2013

Based on these stats he is not doing too well relative to other SGs in the league. I'm pretty ignorant on the difference between B-R win shares and NBA Geek to be honest.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Demar's advanced stats are actually up across the board this season, and are finally above average.

WS/48
2012: .075
2013: .105

PER:
2012: 14.7
2013: 16.1

Not to mention he is shooting 35% from 3 this season, up from 28% last season. I know it bugs a lot of people for whatever reason but Demar is getting better still.

DeRozan's stats are still not great and certainly not near expectations, given his prominent role on this team. His stats still don't prove that he passes the eye-test of being a good player.


PLAYER #1
FG%: 40.4%
3PT%: 35.1%
PER: 16.12
eFG%: 43.6%
TS%: 49.3%
USG%: 26.8%
PIE: 10.5%


PLAYER #2
FG%: 50.9%
3PT%: 39.4%
PER: 19.9
eFG%: 56.5%
TS%: 59.5%
USG%: 23.5%
PIE: 11.6%



Looking at advanced stats, which player would you prefer? All stats pulled Nov.20/13 from NBA.com



Player #1 is DeRozan... Player #2 is Bargnani... no more waiting & no more seeing (at least, not beyond Dec.13!)

[Nilanka]

It's a sign. We MUST reunite DeRozan with Bargnani....

Now excuse me while I get struck by lightning on my way home.

[JimiCliff]

I just listened to Colangelo with an accent.

He didn't use the word 'organic', did he?

[planetmars]

It's a sign. We MUST reunite DeRozan with Bargnani....

Now excuse me while I get struck by lightning on my way home.

With the Knicks playing the way they have and with Shumpert being dangled, you could almost see DD going to NY to play with Andrea. Too bad NY doesn't have any other assets.

[Primer]

DeRozan's stats are still not great and certainly not near expectations, given his prominent role on this team. His stats still don't prove that he passes the eye-test of being a good player.


PLAYER #1
FG%: 40.4%
3PT%: 35.1%
PER: 16.12
eFG%: 43.6%
TS%: 49.3%
USG%: 26.8%
PIE: 10.5%


PLAYER #2
FG%: 50.9%
3PT%: 39.4%
PER: 19.9
eFG%: 56.5%
TS%: 59.5%
USG%: 23.5%
PIE: 11.6%



Looking at advanced stats, which player would you prefer? All stats pulled Nov.20/13 from NBA.com



Player #1 is DeRozan... Player #2 is Bargnani... no more waiting & no more seeing (at least, not beyond Dec.13!)

If anything, that is an indictment on how Bargs was used while in Toronto. He is still an absolute sieve on defense but NY has figured out how to effectively use Bargs on offense.

I've said this in other threads but I'd like to see Casey go before anyone else. No one person has been more detrimental to the development of this team than Casey. Hopefully once we deal Gay we can fire Casey too without him losing too much face (the whole "it's not you, it's us" thing).

[white men can't jump]

If anything, that is an indictment on how Bargs was used while in Toronto. He is still an absolute sieve on defense but NY has figured out how to effectively use Bargs on offense.

I've said this in other threads but I'd like to see Casey go before anyone else. No one person has been more detrimental to the development of this team than Casey. Hopefully once we deal Gay we can fire Casey too without him losing too much face (the whole "it's not you, it's us" thing).

I don't know if I'd say NY has figured out how to use him. It's an indictmet of the fact that Toronto tried to use Bargs as a #1 scorer when he's clearly not that. It's not like he's scoring in new ways or from new spots, he's just being used essentially the right amount....at better instances as he's pretty much never the primary offensive option when he's on the floor.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

If anything, that is an indictment on how Bargs was used while in Toronto. He is still an absolute sieve on defense but NY has figured out how to effectively use Bargs on offense.

I've said this in other threads but I'd like to see Casey go before anyone else. No one person has been more detrimental to the development of this team than Casey. Hopefully once we deal Gay we can fire Casey too without him losing too much face (the whole "it's not you, it's us" thing).

I completely agree with you about Casey, but I don't think it makes a ton of sense to fire him now. There's a good chance that next year's roster will look entirely different than this year's, so I would wait until the revised roster is starting to take shape before hiring the new coach (ie: in the offseason, after the draft and into free agency). That ensures that the GM, coach and roster are all on the same page about where the team is at, where it's heading and what the priorities are for the upcoming season.

From the time MU was hired, I figured DC was a lame duck coach. I also have no doubt that MU has already begun assembling a short-list of replacement coaches to approach for interviews during the offseason.

[Bendit]

It's a sign. We MUST reunite DeRozan with Bargnani....

Now excuse me while I get struck by lightning on my way home.

Sarcasm noted...but...

NYK is normally a target to deal with and unload. Alas, their cupboard is bare...I mean really bare. Ironically, it has been MU who has helped with the depletion since his Nugget days. Would you do a Shumpert (they are trying to trade him) and ballast for DD? I waver.

[Primer]

I don't know if I'd say NY has figured out how to use him. It's an indictmet of the fact that Toronto tried to use Bargs as a #1 scorer when he's clearly not that. It's not like he's scoring in new ways or from new spots, he's just being used essentially the right amount....at better instances as he's pretty much never the primary offensive option when he's on the floor.

First bold and second bold are kinda contradictory no? They haven't figured out how to use him, they're just using him the right amount and at better instances. Sounds exactly like they figured out how to use him. I know it's hard to give NY credit since it was painfully obvious to all of us Raptors fans that the correct way to use him is the way NY is, but that again just goes to show how bad a coach Casey is. Even Mr. Potato Head Mike Woodson figured out how to use Bargs, and he's a pretty terrible coach himself.

[white men can't jump]

I completely agree with you about Casey, but I don't think it makes a ton of sense to fire him now. There's a good chance that next year's roster will look entirely different than this year's, so I would wait until the revised roster is starting to take shape before hiring the new coach (ie: in the offseason, after the draft and into free agency). That ensures that the GM, coach and roster are all on the same page about where the team is at, where it's heading and what the priorities are for the upcoming season.

From the time MU was hired, I figured DC was a lame duck coach. I also have no doubt that MU has already begun assembling a short-list of replacement coaches to approach for interviews during the offseason.

I think there is merit to firing him. Toronto is playing awful basketball. Like, worse than high school teams I've seen in terms of offensive sets (dead serious here), and a total lack of accountability on D. I don't think it's wrong to say this brand of basketball is not particularly good for any of our players, and you definitely don't want to negatively impact the development of guys like Jonas and Ross, regardless of what one might think of their ceilings. You want your players to not have damage done to their confidence, and to learn to play the right way. IMO Casey is failing miserably in those respects. It's fine with me if they just promote Bayno or Nurse, and yes, I realize there's no guarantee they're better, but they can't be worse. I'd take just about anything over Casey. Heck, from a subs and timeout perspective, I'd trust the simulated decisions on a video game over Casey.

[Primer]

I completely agree with you about Casey, but I don't think it makes a ton of sense to fire him now. There's a good chance that next year's roster will look entirely different than this year's, so I would wait until the revised roster is starting to take shape before hiring the new coach (ie: in the offseason, after the draft and into free agency). That ensures that the GM, coach and roster are all on the same page about where the team is at, where it's heading and what the priorities are for the upcoming season.

From the time MU was hired, I figured DC was a lame duck coach. I also have no doubt that MU has already begun assembling a short-list of replacement coaches to approach for interviews during the offseason.

Wouldn't it be much better to hire a new coach and get his input on the roster decisions? He will, after all, be the one coaching these guys for the next 4+ years. I think that would make it even more likely for everyone to be on the same page since they all made the decisions together.

I agree Casey is a lame duck coach, I'd just rather have a lame duck coach who isn't fighting for his job at the expense of our young players development (see JV). Just promote one of the assistants, tell him to focus on player development, and that his assistant coach job is safe and he'll be an assistant for whoever the new head coach is next season. Both Nurse and Bayno were Ujiri hires, not Casey, so I'd assume they will remain whenever a new Coach is brought in.

[Primer]

Sarcasm noted...but...

NYK is normally a target to deal with and unload. Alas, their cupboard is bare...I mean really bare. Ironically, it has been MU who has helped with the depletion since his Nugget days. Would you do a Shumpert (they are trying to trade him) and ballast for DD? I waver.

I think we could do a lot better than that for Derozan. He'll bring a 1st round pick back for sure (freaking Bargs did!), so I wouldn't want to trade him to a team without any 1st round picks.

I like Shump but I think we could do a lot better when it comes to rebuilding.

[white men can't jump]

First bold and second bold are kinda contradictory no? They haven't figured out how to use him, they're just using him the right amount and at better instances. Sounds exactly like they figured out how to use him. I know it's hard to give NY credit since it was painfully obvious to all of us Raptors fans that the correct way to use him is the way NY is, but that again just goes to show how bad a coach Casey is. Even Mr. Potato Head Mike Woodson figured out how to use Bargs, and he's a pretty terrible coach himself.

I realize it sounds weird, but I meant that situationally he's not being used in different spots. He's being asked to do the same things he was doing in Toronto, just in a better spot in terms of pecking order. This includes when they iso him, as it's totally different to iso Bargs when Melo is the on the floor and a better player, as opposed to an iso where DeMar is the 2nd best player on the floor. Toronto did not even have that kind of option. So I'm not sure you can blame the coach. And I'm not sure you can say they've figured out "how" to use him. More like "when", and that their roster just gives them a better natural fit.

It's just when I hear "how", I hear it like he's being used in a vastly different way. Like changing him from a pick'n'pop player to a pick'n'roll player, to give an example. This is not the case. Bargs is still taking largely the same shots he was taking in Toronto, there's just less focus on him from the opposing D, and less responsibility on him to carry the whole load.

[Bendit]

First bold and second bold are kinda contradictory no? They haven't figured out how to use him, they're just using him the right amount and at better instances. Sounds exactly like they figured out how to use him. I know it's hard to give NY credit since it was painfully obvious to all of us Raptors fans that the correct way to use him is the way NY is, but that again just goes to show how bad a coach Casey is. Even Mr. Potato Head Mike Woodson figured out how to use Bargs, and he's a pretty terrible coach himself.

I'll let wmcj answer for himself..and while you have a point re time usage I think wmcj may have been referring to positional play and responsibilities. He was started out as a C and surprisingly didnt do too badly considering that was not his personal preferred position. Last night however he was replaced by KMart at C and reverted back to PF. The numbers have fallen back but its one game so who knows. The point though is I dont know that Woody has really figured Bargs out just yet. imo the problem has always been a commitment to tough balling for a 7 fter in a sustained way with AB. His talent is unquestioned.