On Valanciunas - The blasphemy thread

[lilmamba_]

I am thinking you like athletic wings who dunk and base your like/dislike of that most important criteria.

nah, i like athletic wings who can close out games have proper ball handling skills great defense and high iq add the dunks and highlights i won't mind
i know we're (demar, rudy & ross) not there yet but their getting there they all have something that their great at and thats why they complement each other
demar and rudy will co exist period.

[mcHAPPY]

nah, i like athletic wings who can close out games have proper ball handling skills great defense and high iq add the dunks and highlights i won't mind
i know we're (demar, rudy & ross) not there yet but their getting there they all have something that their great at and thats why they complement each other
demar and rudy will co exist period.

That describes no Raptor wing.

[Shrub]

Also, congratulations to the Republic! It only took one full season plus 12 games, but the JV hating is finally here! I was getting a little worried!

Hehehaha.

I didn't want this thread to go that way...but I knew it would

[mcHAPPY]

I'd say Drummond's progressing at the pace of a HOF player. His physical dominance reminds me of young Shaq. It's probably in all of our best interests to never, ever compare JV to Drummond again. (Although, to remove some of the salt from that wound: it's looking like Drummond could also end up the league's all-time worst ft shooter, and if the Hack-a-Shaq rules don't change, this will have a huge impact on his effectiveness.)

Hack-a-Shaq will be known as Beat-a-Drumm in another 5 seasons.

[rocwell]

Hehehaha.

I didn't want this thread to go that way...but I knew it would

No worries. This is a forum and we're discussing about variety of topics :-) freedom of speech

Hack-a-Shaq will be known as Beat-a-Drumm in another 5 seasons.

hahahaha

That's a good one.

[lilmamba_]

That describes no Raptor wing.

damn Matt, finish reading

like it or not rudy is our closer and is pretty clutch
ross is our 3D guy
demar brings everything else to the team
and fields has that real high iq even though every player should have some brains but hey

[mcHAPPY]

damn Matt, finish reading

I read it. Disagreed with that too. So I decided to just roll with what I disagreed with the most.

[Masai Ujiri]

Yup people need to temper their expectations on JV for now, until he shows us more. No sense predicting multiple all-star appearances and then potentially hating the guy 5 years down the line when he's "only" putting up 12-10 (not saying that's what he will average, but it's a possibility).

Very similar to what people did with DD. Expecting greatness, the guy ends up just "good" and gets flack for every single fault in his game.

[Masai Ujiri]

That describes no Raptor wing.

It doesn't really describe like 99% of the wings in the league.

Athletic
Closer
Ball Handling Skills
Great Defense
High IQ

You look for wings that have these things and you're pretty much left with:

LeBron James
Paul George

Even Durant is disqualified from this because he's not a great defender. I don't think a single 2-guard in the league fits this description (Kobe and Harden don't play D, Kobe used to not anymore), except maybe Wade when healthy.

[white men can't jump]

You know, you might want to re-read that original post. I believe you may realize that you are actually very similar in thought on the issue. He's saying the same thing as you man.

The similar part is that he may not be a franchise player. I disagree with Shrub about everything else he said in his original post. And I still think he has a chance to be a franchise player, just I'm perfectly happy with him being a top 5 C, which I see as pretty likely. That's an extremely valuable piece. Jonas will be a double-double machine in time, and given actual consistent opportunities from the team, has a chance to be a 20-10 guy, and very likely will be a 15-10 guy. It doesn't help that this team sucks balls at using their bigs right now.

*Random thought since his pump-fake has been brought up. Does anyone else feel like they asked him not to shoot jumpers going into summer league? I feel like the coaches told him to focus on scoring in the paint and he hasn't got that message out of his head. He was hitting those jumpers pretty well when taking them last year. It's why his pump-fake was a good move. Don't know what's up with it now.

[isaacthompson]

I just stated that by saying never he was absolutely wrong, as it worked out pretty well numerous times.

It probably has a 10% success rate. I don't buy it's effectiveness.

[JimiCliff]

Yup people need to temper their expectations on JV for now, until he shows us more. No sense predicting multiple all-star appearances and then potentially hating the guy 5 years down the line when he's "only" putting up 12-10 (not saying that's what he will average, but it's a possibility).

Very similar to what people did with DD. Expecting greatness, the guy ends up just "good" and gets flack for every single fault in his game.

I think this is where part of the JV hate is originating from; it seems as though the JV 'haters' think the JV 'fanboys' believe he will be a multiple all-star, franchise player, etc. etc. but I don't think we, the fanboys, are expecting greatness. I think we expect him to be a very solid starting centre in the NBA for a long time to come. And I don't think anything we've seen so far contradicts that.

[mcHAPPY]

I don't accept any of that. I don't know where you're getting it, but you're looking at different numbers than I am. I would certainly trade Valanciunas for any of the 3 guys you mentioned.

I'm confused now. You said JV is not in the same league as Shaq, Kareem, etc. and I agreed with you. Now you don't accept it?

Noah will be 29 this season.
Hibbert 27.
Horford 27.

If you are trying to win now, yeah sure, trade JV for all those guys. Unfortunately those guys won't make the Raptors win either.

Different numbers? If you assume JV is now what he will always be, ok, I agree. Personally I think he can still get better after 75 NBA games.

[lilmamba_]

It doesn't really describe like 99% of the wings in the league.

Athletic
Closer
Ball Handling Skills
Great Defense
High IQ

You look for wings that have these things and you're pretty much left with:

LeBron James
Paul George

Even Durant is disqualified from this because he's not a great defender. I don't think a single 2-guard in the league fits this description (Kobe and Harden don't play D, Kobe used to not anymore), except maybe Wade when healthy.

exactly you dont need a wing with all of the above you need wings who has atleast some of the qualifications. we need wings who can compliment each other and co exist.. we already got them

[Shrub]

I think this is where part of the JV hate is originating from; it seems as though the JV 'haters' think the JV 'fanboys' believe he will be a multiple all-star, franchise player, etc. etc. but I don't think we, the fanboys, are expecting greatness. I think we expect him to be a very solid starting centre in the NBA for a long time to come. And I don't think anything we've seen so far contradicts that.

You are quite right.
Let me be perfectly clear that none of my criticisms are "hate", just concerns.
But yeah, when we start talking about players with untouchable status, I get worried about the expectations.

I too expect JV to be a solid starting center, but am I wrong in thinking expectations were higher?

We can't divide 'fanboys' and 'hater's into two camps like that, too simple.
I think a lot of people really do think it's on him to rescue this team from mediocrity, and I don't think he's capable of that.