Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

On Valanciunas - The blasphemy thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Brandon wrote:
    It's not in Valanciunas athletically to be where those guys are. He doesn't have the quickness of Noah or the size and strength of Horford and Hibbert.
    So you're not looking at numbers after all.

    Because if you look at those guys stats in their respective 1st and 2nd years, JV is near, at, or exceeding.... or maybe we can just go with similar.

    The catch is he is anywhere from 2-3 years younger at the same point in their respective careers.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Nov 24, 2013, 02:03 PM.

    Comment


    • #62
      Shrub wrote: View Post
      I too expect JV to be a solid starting center, but am I wrong in thinking expectations were higher?
      I said very solid

      For the record, my more detailed, abstract expectation of what JV could be is:

      Either the third or second best player on a contending team (depending on the talent level of the other players).
      "Stop eating your sushi."
      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
      - Jack Armstrong

      Comment


      • #63
        JimiCliff wrote: View Post
        I think this is where part of the JV hate is originating from; it seems as though the JV 'haters' think the JV 'fanboys' believe he will be a multiple all-star, franchise player, etc. etc. but I don't think we, the fanboys, are expecting greatness. I think we expect him to be a very solid starting centre in the NBA for a long time to come. And I don't think anything we've seen so far contradicts that.
        Also that the 'haters' seem to sometimes think of him as replaceable because he may not be destined to be so great, but this team has never had a player of his likely calibre (even with modest expectations) at the C position. Why? Because they're damn near impossible to acquire. Be it through trades or FA signings, they are super costly, and often being chased by many suitors. If you get one, you hang on to him.

        The kind of asset it would take to pry JV away would have to be a truly elite player. LeBron, Durant...maybe that's it.

        You can argue for top-tier PGs, but for everythign they do for your offence, you lose someting on D compared to having an anchor in the middle. Same thing at SG with Harden basically the top guy now, and he's not going to help your D at all. PFs are declining, and off the top of my head, Davis is the only guy I'd take over Jonas as he can play both spots and is a defensive force.

        It's extremely difficult to be a great defensive team without an anchor in the middle.

        Also I would take him over Drummond. Drummond is much rawer than Jonas offensively. He doesn't really have a single go-to move, and he can't shoot FTs. Drummond struggles to finish if he's not right at the basket. I understand the love for Drummond, but it's hard to see him ever being a legit offensive force. Dominant defensively? Maybe one day. But closer to a Mutombo type of player than a Shaq (or any legit 20-10 guy) type of player. I think Jonas has better 2-way potential.

        Comment


        • #64
          Brandon wrote:
          It's not in Valanciunas athletically to be where those guys are. He doesn't have the quickness of Noah or the size and strength of Horford and Hibbert.
          Well he's quicker than Hibbert, and bigger than both Noah and Horford (don't know where you get the impression that Horford is a physical beast...he's a natural PF with good size for PF...not for a C).

          Comment


          • #65
            JimiCliff wrote: View Post
            I said very solid

            For the record, my more detailed, abstract expectation of what JV could be is:

            Either the third or second best player on a contending team (depending on the talent level of the other players).
            This is a nice way of thinking about it, because this scenario seems entirely likely, and it raises the issue of "what would you give up the 2nd or 3rd best piece on a contending team for?" to which the only easy answer is a legit #1 guy, of which there are so few in the league.

            Comment


            • #66
              Right, okay there's the discrepancy.

              Cliff - Agree, but that's his ceiling.

              WhiteJump - Though I see your point, I think that type of thinking can be dangerous.
              While what you say about C's is true, I haven't seen enough from JV to warrant that type of status.
              Time will tell, but now you're talking about the potential of the position rather than the player.
              Same argument could have been made for so, so many bust centers over the past decade.

              I tried to be clear at the onset of the thread, but let me say this:
              I'm not discussing the matter as a GM, I'm talking about my suspicions regarding the player he will become.

              If I'm a GM, I'm taking my chances on the kid.
              There's no denying the potential.
              But as an spectator, I find myself becoming skeptical.

              Comment


              • #67
                Also, let's just remove the word 'hater' from the discussion.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Brandon wrote:
                  I asked about numbers because I thought that's what you were using. The guys you mentioned improved because of their athletic gifts. I don't see the same gifts in Valanciunas. I don't know that you've addressed that issue.
                  If those players are more gifted athletically,

                  then, obviously they were also more gifted athletically than JV when they were his age.

                  So, how could JV be putting up similar numbers to them at the same age?

                  Either:

                  You're wrong about JV being less athletic than them.

                  Or:

                  He's more talented in other respects. And if so, why shouldn't that talent allow his game to develop and improve as well?
                  Last edited by JimiCliff; Sun Nov 24, 2013, 02:39 PM.
                  "Stop eating your sushi."
                  "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                  "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                  - Jack Armstrong

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Shrub wrote: View Post
                    Also, let's just remove the word 'hater' from the discussion.
                    Ok.

                    Also, I wasn't meaning to tag you as a hater; it was pretty obvious when you started this thread that that you weren't coming from hater's perspective.
                    "Stop eating your sushi."
                    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                    - Jack Armstrong

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      JV is building fundamentals right now.

                      Yes Drummond is averaging better stats, but overall JV is the better player. Im watching JV improve a lot defensively over last year, something that has not regressed. His focus may be right now to improve the subtle things in his game that dont get picked up by stats, build a strong foundation, then rack up the stats. It will take him a while to learn how to play elite D with elite O.

                      In piano you learn a song with your left and right hands separately first before learning how to play them together.
                      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Soooo..... lemme get this straight, from what I just read, the only people that would be worth considering in a trade for JV are Durant, and Lebron? The two best on the NBA?????

                        Get a fucking grip people, honestly.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          enlightenment wrote: View Post


                          In piano you learn a song with your left and right hands separately first before learning how to play them together.

                          I did not know that!!!!

                          Cool

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Craig wrote: View Post
                            Soooo..... lemme get this straight, from what I just read, the only people that would be worth considering in a trade for JV are Durant, and Lebron? The two best on the NBA?????

                            Get a fucking grip people, honestly.
                            Where was that said?

                            I'm not sure how that conclusion was reached.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              Where was that said?

                              I'm not sure how that conclusion was reached.
                              The kind of asset it would take to pry JV away would have to be a truly elite player. LeBron, Durant...maybe that's it.
                              It's a bit of a stretch. I think JV is valuable, but not that valuable.
                              OG is our king

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Thank god someone said this! WTF man.....I thought euro fanboys left with Bargnani! Are you guys serious??? I would trade JV for soooo many players (including Kyrie Irving, Lamarcus Aldridge, Chris Paul, Paul George, Hibbert, Noah, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, James Harden, etc.) The list goes on!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X