Is Demar Derozan the real future of this franchise?

[Masai Ujiri]

I would much prefer DeRozan to become far less of a volume scorer and, instead, become a more efficient scorer. The combination of his improved shooting and eliminating some of the bonehead shot selection (which he has done the past few games), should make such numbers much more likely (and provide more shot opportunities for other players).

I would as well. The problem is that option is not currently available to him because of the team that he's on. He has to shoot a lot for this team to enjoy any kind of success. Put him on a better team and I don't think he needs to take 17+ shots a night.

It's good to see you agree with my assessment. The fact that he is not and will not ever be an elite player (should be a #2 or #3 option on a good team) is exactly the point I was making, in response to the OP.

I actually said this already in my first reply to this thread (before your post), but yes we agree here.

To tie the 1st part to this 2nd part, if DeRozan continues to rely on volume scoring to be successful, I'd much rather trade him at peak value. I think his value to a team is when he is the #2 or #3 option and takes the appropriate number of shot attempts for that role, shooting and scoring far more efficiently (essentially shedding the 'inefficient volume scorer' label).

Again, DeRozan would not have to rely on volume scoring if he was on a better team. He can't be the #2 or #3 option on the Raptors, because he's the best scorer on the team (which is a bad thing, that's precisely why I want to tank and get someone better, which would bump DD to his proper role as a #2 or maybe #3).

As someone who pushed all offseason for a DeRozan trade (for a more traditional starting PF) and was labeled a "hater" for it, I was simply complimenting DeRozan by illustrating how he has at least somewhat changed my opinion of him. I am not yet entirely sold on him, but he's been able to move from atop my personal 'must trade' list.

DeRozan doesn't belong on any 'must trade' list and that's probably why you were labeled as a "hater". Personally I'm not a fan of that term though.

[magoon]

Actually I would say that right now he's a very good complimentary piece that is playing at a level well above the value of his contract.

For the last five games, possibly. For the season, not so much. We've had this conversation about DeRozan turning the corner before when he's had hot streaks. If he maintains this sort of play for the next twenty games, we can talk.

More importantly, though, this argument is based on DeRozan's scoring and his scoring alone. He still isn't good on defense. He still doesn't have good floor vision. He still needs help creating his own shot on a regular basis. He's still an inconsistent rebounder.

On a championship team he's your fourth-best player on the floor, a secondary scoring option.

[Rapstor4Life]

Improving somethingevery year is still better than plateauing. As a SG he is doing what is asked of any SG in the league and thats get buckets DeMar has been doing his job, its a bonus he is now playmaking and rebounding, if you're expecting him to stuff the stat sheet with double doubles you are dreaming and kidding yourself.

SGs duty on the team is to score and being a secondary ball handler beside the PG, I'd say so hes doing a dam good job of it recently. However its MAsai's job to entertain the ideas of trading him with his value so high. If you ask me JV--DeMar and possibly Ross are the only members of the current team I'd say move forward with.

[mcHAPPY]

Depends on what you call real deal. He's producing on a bad team so we need to take this with a grain of salt. He's still a SG who can't handle or pass all that well. I consider real deal as making everyone around you better, creating for them, while producing, and stopping his own opponent. I think this production is great though, he's now an excellent trade asset.

Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

Only thing I'd add is the bold.

[mcHAPPY]

If Demar is the future of this franchise, then this franchise isn't going far.

He's no Bargnani, but he's no Bosh either - and Bosh wasn't even close to enough.

Rap of the day.

[charlesnba23]

He's not THE future. But if I was the GM, he's definitely a big part of it.

[Masai Ujiri]

Only thing I'd add is the bold.

Tbh DeMar's defense has been solid this year:

- The Raptors are +8.3 per 48 in pts/100 possessions with him on the floor
- He's giving up a PER of 13.5 to opposing SGs and 12.2 to opposing SFs

His dRTG (105) is also the best it's ever been (although thus far this is the best defensive team DD has played on). Ditto for WS/48.

[hateslosing]

"15th in the league in scoring" is by definition not the future of a franchise, because if your franchise guy is your go-to scorer (and DeMar doesn't do that much else) then he has to be better than 15th in the league in scoring. He is not "taking that step from being a good scorer to being the go to guy" because he wasn't a good scorer beforehand; he was an inefficient volume chucker. He's gone from being a mediocre scorer to being a decent one (and again: small sample size! Five games ago nobody would have taken this post seriously).

DeMar is not the future of this franchise. Right now, at best, he's an okay complimentary piece who might well play up to his contract.

Actually 15th in the league in scoring is pretty great (now he's 13th acording to ESPN . That means that at least half the teams in the NBA don't have a guy who scores more points than DD. At least a few of those teams are playoff teams right now.

We've only played 14 games so far so every conversation we have about this season in going to be based on small sample sizes until after the all star break. Right now though, we've got a guy playing extremely efficient basketball and it's nice to hope that he can keep it up. He doesn't look like he's forcing his game right now so I don't see a reason the efficient numbers can't be more of a norm. I don't think he'll score 29 a game for the rest of the season but he could get into the top ten if he can keep the %'s up.

No one should take this post/thread seriously. It's just an extrapolation of a statistically insignificant sample size, but if we don't talk about things based on statistically significant sample sizes like they are scripture the basketball conversations are going to get pretty boring. It's like posting a thread about a guy making predictions for the season based on the first 10 games: if has no actual value from an analysis perspective but it's fun to talk about.

[JawsGT]

You guys, seriously, I get the sense that no matter how much DeMar improves it will never satisfy Raps fans. We don't deserve this kid...there I said it. Is he a franchise player? No, and I have never had such illusions. But the kid gets better and better each and every season. Is there room for improvement? Duh. But Christ, what does he have to do to satisfy you guys? 50% from the field and 35-40% from the 3pt line...unreal, seriously, I just rolled my eyes when I read that. That basically means that Demar has to shoot better than just about everyone else at his position to be considered a key cog going forward. He has to reach MVP caliber play to be good enough for this team. Most people last year were saying things like, if Demar can get his FG% up to 45+ and even 33% from 3's would be considered a drastic improvement over last years 27-28%. Based on what he's been doing so far, I think he has more than exceeded just about everyone's expectations this season and you all should be damn happy you got this kid on your team.

Is he the future? No, you don't build around a Demar Derozan. He is a great scorer, and I would argue that he has one of the best offensive games of SG's in the league right now. He can score in so many ways, and his shot, which was supposed to be crap, has improved significantly. The season is early, yes I know, but do you see any indication that Demar will regress and his shooting may normalize? I'd be very surprised if he continues to shoot like he has these past 5 games or so, but I see a very different Derozan on the floor this season over previous seasons. His confidence is sky high, he trusts his shot and his game. His shot selection has improved incredibly, despite the fact that this team continues to play shit offence, which means for the most part he has to do it himself. He is a willing passer, but not a great passer, which I think is limited by his court vision. His handle is fine...why are guys still complaining about that? I agree that his defence leaves something to be desired, but in my mind this is an effort thing, and if he just worked harder on that end of the floor than I think he has a bigger impact. Nonetheless, that doesn't matter unless he goes out a does it.

He's not paid to get rebounds so I don't give a rats ass about that, we are a good rebounding team despite his numbers so who cares? More assists would be nice, but it seems to me that he is more comfortable passing the ball than in the past, and better able to make a good pass that can lead to a bucket or the hockey type assist. Defences are gonna start to hone in on DD and let Rudy blow shot after shot, so he should get ample opportunity going forward to improve both his court vision and passing. He isn't chucking, and is letting the game come to him. If he scores like he does, and can somehow have a greater impact on the defensive end, then he is definitely a keeper, definitely worth $9.5M per, and we would be foolish to let him go unless the offer was unrefusable.

You guys gotta start supporting this guy. Any negativity right now should be directed towards Casey and/or Rudy...these are the guys holding this team back.

[Balls of Steel]

Andrew Wiggins is the future of this franchise.

[enlightenment]

Adding the 3 pt range and a tighter handle has helped him score better. He is learning to pass when the help defender switches on him in the lane.

He now needs to know how to react to a double team. Even Bosh struggled with the double team portion of his game. If Demar can learn to how to work a double team in such a way where he can rack up assists doing so, then I can see him average over 5 assists per game in his prime (if he becomes the focal point of the offense).

Things he needs to improve on:

-Double team composure
-Needs even BETTER handles though he has improved from last year
-Play angles and rack up steals
-be more competitive when running through screens and defending the perimeter (his post up D is decent)

Overall, Demar is beasting right now and he has the time and potential (and work ethic) to push himself to another level completely. Every step of the way you guys will doubt him, but i remember defending the idea that the 3pt shot COULD improve, and I will continue to defend Demars ability to improve in other aspects, including passing, defending and handling.

At only 24, this kid is a keeeeeeper.

[charlesnba23]

You guys, seriously, I get the sense that no matter how much DeMar improves it will never satisfy Raps fans. We don't deserve this kid...there I said it. Is he a franchise player? No, and I have never had such illusions. But the kid gets better and better each and every season. Is there room for improvement? Duh. But Christ, what does he have to do to satisfy you guys? 50% from the field and 35-40% from the 3pt line...unreal, seriously, I just rolled my eyes when I read that. That basically means that Demar has to shoot better than just about everyone else at his position to be considered a key cog going forward. He has to reach MVP caliber play to be good enough for this team. Most people last year were saying things like, if Demar can get his FG% up to 45+ and even 33% from 3's would be considered a drastic improvement over last years 27-28%. Based on what he's been doing so far, I think he has more than exceeded just about everyone's expectations this season and you all should be damn happy you got this kid on your team.

Is he the future? No, you don't build around a Demar Derozan. He is a great scorer, and I would argue that he has one of the best offensive games of SG's in the league right now. He can score in so many ways, and his shot, which was supposed to be crap, has improved significantly. The season is early, yes I know, but do you see any indication that Demar will regress and his shooting may normalize? I'd be very surprised if he continues to shoot like he has these past 5 games or so, but I see a very different Derozan on the floor this season over previous seasons. His confidence is sky high, he trusts his shot and his game. His shot selection has improved incredibly, despite the fact that this team continues to play shit offence, which means for the most part he has to do it himself. He is a willing passer, but not a great passer, which I think is limited by his court vision. His handle is fine...why are guys still complaining about that? I agree that his defence leaves something to be desired, but in my mind this is an effort thing, and if he just worked harder on that end of the floor than I think he has a bigger impact. Nonetheless, that doesn't matter unless he goes out a does it.

He's not paid to get rebounds so I don't give a rats ass about that, we are a good rebounding team despite his numbers so who cares? More assists would be nice, but it seems to me that he is more comfortable passing the ball than in the past, and better able to make a good pass that can lead to a bucket or the hockey type assist. Defences are gonna start to hone in on DD and let Rudy blow shot after shot, so he should get ample opportunity going forward to improve both his court vision and passing. He isn't chucking, and is letting the game come to him. If he scores like he does, and can somehow have a greater impact on the defensive end, then he is definitely a keeper, definitely worth $9.5M per, and we would be foolish to let him go unless the offer was unrefusable.

You guys gotta start supporting this guy. Any negativity right now should be directed towards Casey and/or Rudy...these are the guys holding this team back.

Just so people can read it again as they roll down the thread. Thank you, JawsGT.

[hateslosing]

I admit that I've been impressed with DeRozan's improved scoring efficiency lately. I honestly hopes he proves capable of doing so consistently throughout the course of an entire season (I'd settle for 50% FG% and 35-40% 3PT% for a season).

Just to put this in perspective, Kobe Bryant has never in his career shot better than 46.9% from the field or 37.5% from 3. Now Kobe also brought a nice assist game but his scoring number in his 4th season were not that much better than DD's are this year.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

You guys, seriously, I get the sense that no matter how much DeMar improves it will never satisfy Raps fans. We don't deserve this kid...there I said it. Is he a franchise player? No, and I have never had such illusions. But the kid gets better and better each and every season. Is there room for improvement? Duh. But Christ, what does he have to do to satisfy you guys? 50% from the field and 35-40% from the 3pt line...unreal, seriously, I just rolled my eyes when I read that. That basically means that Demar has to shoot better than just about everyone else at his position to be considered a key cog going forward. He has to reach MVP caliber play to be good enough for this team. Most people last year were saying things like, if Demar can get his FG% up to 45+ and even 33% from 3's would be considered a drastic improvement over last years 27-28%. Based on what he's been doing so far, I think he has more than exceeded just about everyone's expectations this season and you all should be damn happy you got this kid on your team.

Is he the future? No, you don't build around a Demar Derozan. He is a great scorer, and I would argue that he has one of the best offensive games of SG's in the league right now. He can score in so many ways, and his shot, which was supposed to be crap, has improved significantly. The season is early, yes I know, but do you see any indication that Demar will regress and his shooting may normalize? I'd be very surprised if he continues to shoot like he has these past 5 games or so, but I see a very different Derozan on the floor this season over previous seasons. His confidence is sky high, he trusts his shot and his game. His shot selection has improved incredibly, despite the fact that this team continues to play shit offence, which means for the most part he has to do it himself. He is a willing passer, but not a great passer, which I think is limited by his court vision. His handle is fine...why are guys still complaining about that? I agree that his defence leaves something to be desired, but in my mind this is an effort thing, and if he just worked harder on that end of the floor than I think he has a bigger impact. Nonetheless, that doesn't matter unless he goes out a does it.

He's not paid to get rebounds so I don't give a rats ass about that, we are a good rebounding team despite his numbers so who cares? More assists would be nice, but it seems to me that he is more comfortable passing the ball than in the past, and better able to make a good pass that can lead to a bucket or the hockey type assist. Defences are gonna start to hone in on DD and let Rudy blow shot after shot, so he should get ample opportunity going forward to improve both his court vision and passing. He isn't chucking, and is letting the game come to him. If he scores like he does, and can somehow have a greater impact on the defensive end, then he is definitely a keeper, definitely worth $9.5M per, and we would be foolish to let him go unless the offer was unrefusable.

You guys gotta start supporting this guy. Any negativity right now should be directed towards Casey and/or Rudy...these are the guys holding this team back.

I was the poster who mentioned the stats you referenced; you initially seem opposed to my overall assessment of DeRozan (even mentioned rolling your eyes), but then you go on to bring up the exact same points I did. I think you missed the context of my assessment and perhaps let your emotions get the best of you.

My assessment and mentioning those lofty shooting % stats to target (a target, not an absolute must to reach those precise %), was in direct response to the OP, which claims that DeRozan is an elite player. My conclusion was that given the weaknesses that still persist in DeRozan's game (all of which you reiterated in your own assessment), his shooting/scoring would have to be at that level in order for him to be considered an elite player overall. If scoring is all a player is going to bring to his team, then he better be extremely efficient with his scoring, to be considered an elite player overall.

My other conclusion was that as a #2/#3 option who shot less but scored more efficiently, DeRozan would be worth his $9.5M contract and worth keeping around. A more efficient DeRozan that was part of the secondary core (ie: not the elite star being built around) would not have such lofty expectations put on him, because it would be agreed upon that he is not and never will be an elite player (which the OP said he already was).

All I was saying is that if DeRozan is going to be considered to be an elite player, he needs to have elite expectations placed on him. Not believing that he is an elite player means also not placing those elite expectations on him, which is exactly the same thing you said about DeRozan. Had you noted my context (replying to the OP claim that DeRozan is already an elite player), you would have realized that I was only saying exactly what you went on to say.

[Axel]

Demar could have a future here if he continues to play well but he'll never be the future. Trading Demar isn't as necessary as trading Gay and Lowry but he might bring in the best return.