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To all those who say Rudy is the problem, I say nay nay.

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  • #16
    Rudy is A problem, but THE problem is much larger than Rudy.

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    • #17
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Rudy is a black hole who does a lot of other things.

      He is a player with holes in his game.

      He is a player who makes probably 50% more than he should.

      But he is still a useful player.
      I agree with all of this. I also understand the tendency to judge a players contribution:salary ratio. In this case, Rudy is so obscenely over paid that you just eat it and don't think about it again. Especially since we didn't negotiate him to that salary. All we want is the player. So use the player wherever he is best suited in whatever capacity he is best suited for. I think he is 3rd option starter or running the 2nd unit.
      Welp, that sucked.

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      • #18
        Rudy needs to go to the bench. Why make it palpable for him to pick up his option? That said, that could be bad for trying to woo free agents in this town. Memphis didn't want him, we're stuck with him, so the bench it is.
        “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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        • #19
          Rudy is absolutely tradeable. Here are some plausible examples:

          PHX and TO
          Rudy Gay for Okafor + 2014 1st round from Indiana + Frye

          Phx will have 23.6 mill on the books add Gays 20, and the CAP is looking to be 62.1, so they are left with 19 mil to pick up Bledsoe's RFA, and sign their draft picks. After that they would have a massive expiring to set them up nicely for the 2015 FA class, which they may be able to attract if they play well and are in the playoffs in 2014 (which they should be)

          TO and Philly

          Gay +/- 2017 2nd round pick from NYK for Evan Turner + J. Rich +/- 2014 second round pick from Houston

          I don't think Philly is looking to resign Turner, so why not get a pretty good SF and cut out Richardsons player option? Definitely a possibility

          TO and Charlotte

          Gay for Ben Gordon + Haywood + 2014 1st round for Portland (which will be late first) + 2016 SA second round

          Charlotte is looking to compete now and have no major players outside of Sessions to resign at the end of the year so they can absorb Gay's contract without hampering their ability to keep the team together. Gay provides some legit scoring if they use him as a sixth man. I think this is a very real trade possibility.

          TO and Cleveland

          Gay + Amir for Bynum + Bennett + 2015 1st round from Miami + 2015 Second round from Portland

          They are in desperate need of a a legit SF and Amir is a freaking solid PF. Great for their win now approach. TO gets 3 great assets and cap flexibilty.

          In short, Rudy Gay is absolutely tradeable. I hope he is gone shortly after Dec. 15th when the Free Agent trade ban lifts

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          • #20
            stooley wrote: View Post
            I agree that Rudy gets more hate than he should. He's a solid defender who makes a lot of those effort plays that help win games.

            On the other hand, Rudy is a problem. So is Casey. IF Rudy had a different mindset and was on a contract worth closer to 9-10 mil, than he's a great asset to have.

            I don't believe that Rudy lacks skills, but to be honest, it isn't just the coaching or the personnel around him. Rudy's been a chucker since his days in Memphis.

            He's got to be realistic with himself and decide now whether he ever wants to become more in this league or not.
            I agree with this post pretty much entirely. I might add this; Rudy Gay has an incredible amount of positive gifts going for him. When he makes the game easy for himself, utilizing screens properly and hitting high percentage shots, he's great, and on the defensive end, I love Rudy gay, I love the help he gives on the glass.

            The issue I have with him is that he just doesn't seem mentally committed. He allows himself to get put in bad situations, yet doesn't seem to want to give up on them by moving the ball. He also, in the "chucker spirit", is always looking for his opportunity, its almost as if he cannot go more than one possession without having to have his own go at scoring. That, to me, is a MASSIVE problem in the sport of Basketball, especially when its coming from your best prospect to play that role as the leader.

            Its a frustration, because for me, if that guy got his head in it, played within his own skills, PATIENTLY, and bought into pure and simple efficient team ball, he'd be worth every bit of his contract.

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            • #21
              I think that Okafur is under contract to the end of this season, so the PHX trade would have to happen this season or would have to be a sign and trade after the season. S&T players are 1 year guaranteed, on a min 3-yr deal. No thanks.

              Would be great for TO this season, since they would get rid of Gay, clear his payroll room, receive a pick (no idea why anyone would give a pick, even late 1st round to acquire Gay though). I'm guessing Frye doesn't pick up his option in this scenario.
              But from PHX side, they have a big expiring now in Okafur, so why push that back a year?

              For the Philly trade, again, works out great for TO, especially if you like Evan Turner. Plus J Rich as an expiring (assuming he picks up that option) next season might be useful in a future trade. But why would Philly want Rudy? Maybe they do it assuming he will not pick up his option for next year. I suppose even if he did, Philly has <20m on the books anyway, but seems like a gamble when they could just rescind Turner and try to sign someone they actually want, or use the room on more smaller contracts.

              For the Charlotte trade: Why would anyone send TWO! picks out in a Rudy Gay trade? Besides, they have 8 guys @ 38m signed for next year, Rudy would make 9 guys @ 57m, so that leaves 5m to sign Sessions plus roster filler. Not impossible, but not likely either. The only way this works is if for some reason, Charlotte wants a reclamation project in Rudy, and thinks he signs there for a lot less money. Otherwise, aren't they trading Ben Gordon, to essentially acquire and re-sign a Ben Gordon type of player?

              I don't think the CLE trade work unless they send out more salary. Looks like they would need to send out almost 2m more. However, I think that depending on how CLE views Rudy, they could be a trade partner since their Gee/Bennett/Clark SF rotation has been terrible. I don't see anything straight up with TO-CLE, but maybe if you get a third team involved.

              Sorry to throw the negative spin on those trades, but I don't see how anyone takes on Rudy and gives up picks without shedding some longer, more toxic contracts.

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              • #22
                I think I mentioned this in another thread (so many threads these days its hard to keep track), but I think Mu holds on to Gay until the summer. Tanking simply requires trading Lowry. No other moves needed.

                With Gay's salary and his ability opt out makes it difficult to gauge his market. If MU can pull of a trade that would be sweet but just don't see it being very realistic. If MU waits until the summer there will be more teams with cap space that can take his contract in a trade. His decision to opt out/in would be answered so that question will not be looming over anyone's head. Worst case Gay opts out. At that point MU frees up some space from the salary cap. They won't get an asset in return but frankly I'm okay with that as opposed to taking back bad value contracts. The worst case scenario in that situation would be that they lost Ed Davis for nothing (Jose was an expiring anyway, and the 2nd round pick is pretty much moot).

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                • #23
                  planetmars wrote: View Post
                  I think I mentioned this in another thread (so many threads these days its hard to keep track), but I think Mu holds on to Gay until the summer. Tanking simply requires trading Lowry. No other moves needed.

                  With Gay's salary and his ability opt out makes it difficult to gauge his market. If MU can pull of a trade that would be sweet but just don't see it being very realistic. If MU waits until the summer there will be more teams with cap space that can take his contract in a trade. His decision to opt out/in would be answered so that question will not be looming over anyone's head. Worst case Gay opts out. At that point MU frees up some space from the salary cap. They won't get an asset in return but frankly I'm okay with that as opposed to taking back bad value contracts. The worst case scenario in that situation would be that they lost Ed Davis for nothing (Jose was an expiring anyway, and the 2nd round pick is pretty much moot).
                  Agreed that Lowry is the only deal that needs to happen to tank. But in terms of fans being happy, trading Gay would be a big move. If the team removes Lowry but keeps Gay, it will be a long season (in terms of watch-ability).

                  I was talking to a buddy the other day, and we both wonder if Gay has reached Bargnani level of disdain by fans....
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • #24
                    Axel wrote: View Post

                    I was talking to a buddy the other day, and we both wonder if Gay has reached Bargnani level of disdain by fans....
                    In less than one full season. That is impressive.
                    9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                    • #25
                      Axel wrote: View Post
                      I was talking to a buddy the other day, and we both wonder if Gay has reached Bargnani level of disdain by fans....
                      It really does feel like it eh? But I think that is only because of the expectations that were placed on him. I think most people expected him to be an All-Star this year. Or at least be in the conversation. Instead,he's in the conversation of least efficient volume shooter in history. UGH.

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                      • #26
                        Axel wrote: View Post
                        Agreed that Lowry is the only deal that needs to happen to tank. But in terms of fans being happy, trading Gay would be a big move. If the team removes Lowry but keeps Gay, it will be a long season (in terms of watch-ability).

                        I was talking to a buddy the other day, and we both wonder if Gay has reached Bargnani level of disdain by fans....
                        I don't think any Raptor will ever be as polarizing as Bargnani was. Gay is killing the flow of the Raptors for sure, but he's at least doing some other things like rebounding and playing passable defense when he feels like it. Plus the Raptors signed Bargnani as the first overall pick.. Gay was picked up in a trade.

                        I don't think this season can be salvaged. I don't see Casey being fired and if Gay is still on the team it just helps the tank really. You move him for a mediocre forward and the chemistry will probably get better and the team might rattle off a few more wins.

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                        • #27
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          It really does feel like it eh? But I think that is only because of the expectations that were placed on him. I think most people expected him to be an All-Star this year. Or at least be in the conversation. Instead,he's in the conversation of least efficient volume shooter in history. UGH.
                          I think a big part of it was that because Barg's was a draft pick, so it came upon us slowly. Creeping in over the years with little heartbreaks and disappointments repeatedly until one day (roughly after 6 years) there was a collective WTF?

                          Gay comes in immediately, sets the bar high then shits the bed.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                          • #28
                            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                            It really does feel like it eh? But I think that is only because of the expectations that were placed on him. I think most people expected him to be an All-Star this year. Or at least be in the conversation. Instead,he's in the conversation of least efficient volume shooter in history. UGH.
                            Well, that's what happens when players talk up a storm during the summer. They have only themselves to blame for the fans' disdain.
                            Twitter - @thekid_it

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                            • #29
                              S.R. wrote: View Post
                              'Melo was most effective when placed in the perfect situation of having strong personalities (leadership) that complemented his weaknesses and pushed him to be a better all around player: Mike Woodson (defensive coach), Jason Kidd, and Tyson Chandler (great defensive vets with the credibility of just coming off a Dallas championship) were able to coax more out of Anthony than anybody else.

                              Obviously, 'Melo didn't really "learn" anything - he's reverted to all of his old bad habits and the Knicks are inefficient, defensively terrible, and losing.
                              BINGO!!! That's why I firmly believe he would do well with the Lakers. Their management is smart enough to know that Kobe will bring him to heel. He feels like the alpha dog here and does as he pleases, but he's a very talented guy who could be effective if he ever learned to play within himself and buy into a team concept.

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                              • #30
                                I was referring to Rudy there.

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