TANK vs ANTI TANK - SUPER THREAD - The Because I Can't Keep Track Edition

[Joey]

Yeah I don't like it when articles make things up for hyperbole, although the article was good.

Our own Damon Stoudamire won ROY in 1995 as well and he was picked 7th.

Mark Jackson in 1988, picked 18th. So it's actually 3 in the last 30 years. Nevertheless, still a good point.

Damn I missed Jackson too! Good find!

[peanutwoozle]

Yeah, I like the "since 2007" time frame. In the six seasons leading up to this one, the Toronto Raptors have:
- 1 first round playoff appearance (6 years ago)
- employed 3 different coaches
- lost their only all-star player
- gone from being one of the worst defensive teams in the league to having a nationally ridiculed offense
- finished the season 0.500 or worse every year

But, like you pointed out so helpfully, the Raps have been better than the Kings! So, let's keeping moving forwards, boys. Things are looking fine!

Sacramento has been in the high end of the draft for most of those years, lets see what those high picks came out to.

Tyreke Evans (ROY) no longer with team
DeMarcus Cousins - being a knucklehead has prevented success
Jimmer Fredette - now available in trade talks
Thomas Robinson - not one, but two teams have already given up on him

Minnesota as well
Kevin Love - all star (so that's a good one)
Ricky Rubio - another good choice, but he did take a while before he actually played a game.
Wesley Johnson - Gave up on him
Corey Brewer - was waived to make space for Anthony Randolph originally before signing back this year
Johnny Flynn - bust
Wesley Johnson - bust
Derrick Williams - bust


Most of those guys all went when they were projected to go, so it's not like Hoffa over Iguodala.

[S.R.]

Sacramento has been in the high end of the draft for most of those years, lets see what those high picks came out to.

Tyreke Evans (ROY) no longer with team
DeMarcus Cousins - being a knucklehead has prevented success
Jimmer Fredette - now available in trade talks
Thomas Robinson - not one, but two teams have already given up on him

Minnesota as well
Kevin Love - all star (so that's a good one)
Ricky Rubio - another good choice, but he did take a while before he actually played a game.
Wesley Johnson - Gave up on him
Corey Brewer - was waived to make space for Anthony Randolph originally before signing back this year
Johnny Flynn - bust
Wesley Johnson - bust
Derrick Williams - bust


Most of those guys all went when they were projected to go, so it's not like Hoffa over Iguodala.

LOL, it's almost like you didn't read the two posts immediately preceding yours. But you would never do something like that, I know.

[peanutwoozle]

LOL, it's almost like you didn't read the two posts immediately preceding yours. But you would never do something like that, I know.

maybe they were posted while I was looking this information up

[Fully]

Marginally better than Sacramento Kings (but still way below average overall) since 2007.

And this was said in defense of not blowing it up?

[ball4life]

Tanking year after year is not going to build a good rapport with players (as seen now).

the quote would be more like this "the raptors look like a serious contender, sure they have a great young core of talent, but I have heard from a few of my peers that the organization does not treat its players very well, screw you guys, I'm signing with this other contender here"

I think this is first time Raps will tank on purpose if we choose to this season.... all other season have been...just..bad..talent(!)..on the roster trying to play....basketball

so your claim of us tanking year after year holds no ground. we just sucked cuz we couldnt get real talent

[peanutwoozle]

It didn't sound like you did. Being capped out isn't an issue when signing your own players. Building through the draft is not hindered by the salary cap.

here's how I factored it in, when we have cap space, all we can do is sign our own guys and that will also hinder our chances of improving the team and taking the next step, and even if we did have cap space, guess what, all of those bird rights would have to be renounced, that's right, renounced.

building through the draft is not initially hindered by the salary cap, but in the future (which is what you guys are aiming for), it is.

[S.R.]

Marginally better than Sacramento Kings (but still way below average overall) since 2007.

And this was said in defense of not blowing it up?

Low standards epitomized, right up there with defending 6-11 because it's better than 4-19.

Add that to "real fans would never want their team to lose" and you've got a real head scratcher here.

[peanutwoozle]

Fans have been waiting patiently for 18 years. What's another 2?

you can guarantee it will happen in 2 years?

[Axel]

you can guarantee it will happen in 2 years?

And what guarantees are you offering with your "playoff push" this year?

[Superjudge]

your posts are irritating to me, yet, i cannot look away.

[peanutwoozle]

Marginally better than Sacramento Kings (but still way below average overall) since 2007.

And this was said in defense of not blowing it up?

here is what I mean, Sacramento has been tanking for all of those years, and has had numerous high picks, and all of those picks were taken when they were projected to go, so Masai might have made the same picks if he were in that situation. Do they have anything to show for tanking? Nope.

[Axel]

here's how I factored it in, when we have cap space, all we can do is sign our own guys and that will also hinder our chances of improving the team and taking the next step, and even if we did have cap space, guess what, all of those bird rights would have to be renounced, that's right, renounced.

building through the draft is not initially hindered by the salary cap, but in the future (which is what you guys are aiming for), it is.

By this logic we should continually trade our first round picks away to ensure we have cap space in case a top FA wants to come here.

[peanutwoozle]

And what guarantees are you offering with your "playoff push" this year?

playoff experience.

[special1]

Do you believe a core of DeRozan, Ross, Acy and Jonas is one day capable of winning a championship? Yes/No?

Do you believe trading Lowry and/or Gay can net us an elite player capable of leading us to a championship? Yes/No?

To be honest, I wouldn't consider Acy or Ross to be part of the "core" yet.....i see those guys as role players right now.

Do you believe there is an elite player in this draft that is capable of leading any lottery team to a championship anytime within the next 7 years??

I don't see a Tim Duncan in this draft. Lebron couldn't do it in 7 years in Cleveland! He left for Miami to be with 2 other superstars remember?

Who do you think will be in the core after this year? Then ask yourself if you think those players (i imagine some who haven't proven to be good or elite against NBA competition) will lead you to a championship.

There is uncertainty....If we trade Lowry and Gay and some of the other veterans, we could possibly be a high lottery pick with the players i mentioned above still on the team (DD, JV, TR, QA). Wouldn't you agree that this would be a good outcome for tankers? Is this tanking? The lines get blurred the further you go into rebuilding.

I guess my point is that we have some good pieces here! It's Masai's job to get the RIGHT pieces and TALENT in here.