TANK vs ANTI TANK - SUPER THREAD - The Because I Can't Keep Track Edition

[Axel]

here is what I mean, Sacramento has been tanking for all of those years, and has had numerous high picks, and all of those picks were taken when they were projected to go, so Masai might have made the same picks if he were in that situation. Do they have anything to show for tanking? Nope.

Poor management cannot save any team. The Bobcats and BC have proven that. If you trust MU to draft in the mid-teens and find talent, why do you not trust him in the lottery?

[Axel]

playoff experience.

Which accomplishes? For the purpose of?

One line responses aren't really responses.

[peanutwoozle]

Poor management cannot save any team. The Bobcats and BC have proven that. If you trust MU to draft in the mid-teens and find talent, why do you not trust him in the lottery?

because people think it is sooooo easy to draft in the lottery, but it is a lot harder the higher up you go, there are just a lot of guys to choose from. Example, Oden/Durant, Portland had the first overall pick, and selected Oden, 29 other teams would have done the same thing, so I don't call that bad management, I call that bad luck.

people claim that Thomas Robinson was a bad pick, well its easy to say that now, but then, he was considered one of the most NBA-ready player and could have gone right after Anthony Davis, don't believe me, read this http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...ngs/55906796/1

[Nilanka]

you can guarantee it will happen in 2 years?

What's with the circular arguments? Haven't we all acknowledged that there are no guarantees whether you're for or against tanking?

[peanutwoozle]

What's with the circular arguments? Haven't we all acknowledged that there are no guarantees whether you're for or against tanking?

well what's with all the claiming it will take (insert number of years here) for (insert event here) to happen.

[magoon]

because people think it is sooooo easy to draft in the lottery, but it is a lot harder the higher up you go, there are just a lot of guys to choose from. Example, Oden/Durant, Portland had the first overall pick, and selected Oden, 29 other teams would have done the same thing, so I don't call that bad management, I call that bad luck.

29 other teams would NOT have done the same thing. Oden over Durant that year was a head-scratcher and everybody said, straight up, that Portland was gambling huge on Oden's promise over Durant's immediate impact.

[peanutwoozle]

By this logic we should continually trade our first round picks away to ensure we have cap space in case a top FA wants to come here.

If it nets a good return, why not?

[magoon]

playoff experience.

Brandon Jennings has playoff experience but I wouldn't want him on my team. Playoff experience is only useful if A) you're a good player and B) you expect to go to the playoffs regularly. This team is not a playoff team. It's quite possibly not even a playoff team when the Eastern Conference is historically bad.

[Axel]

If it nets a good return, why not?

CBA restrictions on trading away back-to-back picks being one.

CBA restrictions on financial spending and the benefits of low cost rookie deals being two.

Chances of having the right free agents (need, fit, etc) available at the right time and that they are willing to come to a team that trades away all of their picks year after year being three.

[Nilanka]

Do you believe there is an elite player in this draft that is capable of leading any lottery team to a championship anytime within the next 7 years??

I don't see a Tim Duncan in this draft. Lebron couldn't do it in 7 years in Cleveland! He left for Miami to be with 2 other superstars remember?

Who do you think will be in the core after this year? Then ask yourself if you think those players (i imagine some who haven't proven to be good or elite against NBA competition) will lead you to a championship.

There is uncertainty....If we trade Lowry and Gay and some of the other veterans, we could possibly be a high lottery pick with the players i mentioned above still on the team (DD, JV, TR, QA). Wouldn't you agree that this would be a good outcome for tankers? Is this tanking?

I should clarify that I meant competing for championships. LeBron and Durant type players count, even though they haven't won rings with the team that drafted them. And to answer your question, yes I do think that Wiggins, Parker and Randle are those type of players. Maybe even Exum.

In terms of the Raptors' core, I'm honestly not attached to anyone...even Jonas. I'm up for trading anyone as long as it puts us in a position to improve the team going forward. I know that's a vague answer, but that's basically what it comes down to for me.

Regarding the bold, yeah, I guess you can call that "tanking". That is, sacrificing this season in order to improve the team in the future. It appears there is some overlap in what we're both hoping for.

[peanutwoozle]

29 other teams would NOT have done the same thing. Oden over Durant that year was a head-scratcher and everybody said, straight up, that Portland was gambling huge on Oden's promise over Durant's immediate impact.

Its easy to say that now.

I seem to recall that Oden was the consensus pick back then, and there was an interview while watching the draft just after Portland let Pritchard go, where JVG actually defended Pritchard and said that 29 other teams would have taken Oden, who am I going to believe, JVG or you? I'm going with JVG.

[Axel]

because people think it is sooooo easy to draft in the lottery, but it is a lot harder the higher up you go, there are just a lot of guys to choose from. Example, Oden/Durant, Portland had the first overall pick, and selected Oden, 29 other teams would have done the same thing, so I don't call that bad management, I call that bad luck.

people claim that Thomas Robinson was a bad pick, well its easy to say that now, but then, he was considered one of the most NBA-ready player and could have gone right after Anthony Davis, don't believe me, read this http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...ngs/55906796/1

Portland? I thought we were talking about Sacramento?

No one thinks drafting is easy but your logic that it's more difficult at the top because there are more options just doesn't make any sense. Best way to maximize your chances of drafting the right player is to have as many options available as possible. Top of the draft is where the best players are usually drafted. There's absolutely no logic to your arguments.

[Axel]

Its easy to say that now.

I seem to recall that Oden was the consensus pick back then, and there was an interview while watching the draft just after Portland let Pritchard go, where JVG actually defended Pritchard and said that 29 other teams would have taken Oden, who am I going to believe, JVG or you? I'm going with JVG.

Oden was a legit pick, but injuries derailed his career. Durant was about 50/50 for the top pick that year. But by your logic, the Raps would be better off drafting in the mid teens and would be debating between players like (in 2007 with Oden/Durant) Sean Williams (17th), Marco Belinello (18th) or Jarvais Crittenton (19th)

[Nilanka]

Its easy to say that now.

I seem to recall that Oden was the consensus pick back then, and there was an interview while watching the draft just after Portland let Pritchard go, where JVG actually defended Pritchard and said that 29 other teams would have taken Oden, who am I going to believe, JVG or you? I'm going with JVG.

Risk of injury applies to every player in the league (not just draft picks). Using Oden as a reason to avoid the "luck" of the lottery isn't accurate. I could just as easily point to Andrew Bynum and say "see, that's why we shouldn't explore trades".

[white men can't jump]

Brandon Jennings has playoff experience but I wouldn't want him on my team. Playoff experience is only useful if A) you're a good player and B) you expect to go to the playoffs regularly. This team is not a playoff team. It's quite possibly not even a playoff team when the Eastern Conference is historically bad.

It shouldn't be overlooked that we actually have many guys with playoff experience (in varying amounts) on the roster. Gay, Lowry, Hansbrough, Augustin, Fields, Novak, Gray....Even Austin Daye saw some minutes in Memphis last year. Has it really helped push any of these guys, or are they exactly the players they would be regardless? I'd say the latter.

So yeah, it's pretty much got no real impact on the development of most guys most of the time.