I know I may pissed off a lot of people, but should we considering to trade JV?

[mcHAPPY]

Anyone is available for price.

Expectations are ridiculous and thre are 61 games to be played without gay.

[phdmac]

JV hasn't built off the end of last season how we have all hoped that is true, but playing with Rudy, DeMar and Lowry hasn't helped his cause. He shows a great touch in the post, but needs to get better post position. Defensively he's a work in progress. If somebody wants to give a top 5 pick, you'd have to consider it, but I like JV a lot and see him as a great building block with our pick from this season and whatever other assets Masai picks up

[Eric Montross 00]

First off, as I mentioned to you previously, the Spurs and Cavs moves were not in a draft as loaded as this one. Secondly, a 28th or 30th pick currently sits as San Antonio, Portland and Pacers. I don't see any of those teams needing or wanting both Ross and Novak. I don't think Ross + Novak gets you a 1st anyhow, but even if those teams want 1 of those guys, you're not getting a 1st for them. Also, that LAC-CLE deal has widely been panned as one of the worst missteps by a franchise for giving up what amounted to the 1st overall pick

Okay Miami Heat will do it, and please explain to me a way to best judge a player's playing? check their stat sheet right? now I don't think I'm wrong that to evaluate a person's playing one of the best way to evaluate is not just checking his stat sheet but rather watching him play correct? this is why teams actually spend MONEY to hire a guy that watches people play and evaluate their values. NOW you tell me, how do we watch people's play as average basketball fan that can't get access to those video files that only professional sports team collects? we watch youtube correct? now, KCP has zero youtube highlights as a Piston. and He is in starting lineup and plays everyday. I take back the "BUST" word (I think I remember I have never called KCP a bust but anyhow), but he is not a great player, if he's that great why he has no highlights? actually he has one highlight video just comes out from yesterday, but our conversation was before that. Here is the point, you want Raptors to be better, and i want Raptors to be better, I proposed a trade idea that would help the Raptors to get better, and you didn't think so, that's fine, but there is no point to continuously bring that old topic and continuously say I am wrong.

[phdmac]

Stats are one measure yes. But a lot of us just watch games and notice things that players do that don't show up on stat sheets. The subtle things that make them a valuable player even if they're not stuffing the stat sheet in certain areas. YouTube should NEVER be used as a measure of a player. Those clips are put together by people that don't evaluate players' values. I bring up the terrible deal you mentioned, because you made a couple of laughable comments in this thread and I felt it was necessary to put into context some of the opinions you have voiced on here.

[imaginelino]

Trade the only legit center the franchise has had in 8 years on a rookie contract, doesn't make sense to me. We are trying to build a team here, not a pick up game of 2 on 2. Keep your young assets and good contracts, get rid of the rest.

Problem we see here is he is not being developed. Get rid of Casey, get the kid involved with the game. Way to early to give up on him. Jesus.

[Papa Burgundy]

Should be a feature to block ppl from making threads after a strike or two.

Nobody expected JV to average 20 and 12. Kevin Love is the ONLY person in the NBA doing that ... and it took more than 1 year of NBA experience.

Should we trade JV? There are few options in trade to get young, talented assets with high ceiling - above Jonas. Not saying he should be untouchable, but he's not in the list of Raptor problems.

He can't get us a top 5 pick right now, because nobody has a top 5 pick right now ... and won't until the season ends, and the lottery balls fly.

[Papa Burgundy]

I don't think you're pissing anyone off ... just really seems like some expectations and ideas are pretty wild.

[Eric Montross 00]

Stats are one measure yes. But a lot of us just watch games and notice things that players do that don't show up on stat sheets. The subtle things that make them a valuable player even if they're not stuffing the stat sheet in certain areas. YouTube should NEVER be used as a measure of a player. Those clips are put together by people that don't evaluate players' values. I bring up the terrible deal you mentioned, because you made a couple of laughable comments in this thread and I felt it was necessary to put into context some of the opinions you have voiced on here.

Go ahead and laugh and your very welcome, that's what this forum does. Propose trade ideas, some could be a bit crazy and some could be extremely terrible. I still stands that Pistons's weakness is at the SG, and I thought if we would give Ross and some other players could make Piston attractive and in exchange for their 1st round pick. At that time Gay was still on this team, and after the Gay's transaction and Lowry's rumor I realized 1st round picks are extremely valued for this coming year even at the middle of the first round, no body giving up their first round picks. So market wise I wasn't aware how much asset or values are in those first round picks in this coming year. But i still stands that Piston's weakness is at SG, and I thought we should make Ross available to make it attractive from them. But I just don't understand why this is a "terrible deal" and "laugable comments"? people proposed of trading Gay for Monroe in your idea is not crazy?

[Rapstor4Life]

since Gay left hes been playing better hes on pace to be that 10 10 guy. remember what makes JV so special isnt that he is young or big/ high motor, its that as a Center he could be dangerous offensively he will never be a an awesome rim protector.

[phdmac]

Go ahead and laugh and your very welcome, that's what this forum does. Propose trade ideas, some could be a bit crazy and some could be extremely terrible. I still stands that Pistons's weakness is at the SG, and I thought if we would give Ross and some other players could make Piston attractive and in exchange for their 1st round pick. At that time Gay was still on this team, and after the Gay's transaction and Lowry's rumor I realized 1st round picks are extremely valued for this coming year even at the middle of the first round, no body giving up their first round picks. So market wise I wasn't aware how much asset or values are in those first round picks in this coming year. But i still stands that Piston's weakness is at SG, and I thought we should make Ross available to make it attractive from them. But I just don't understand why this is a "terrible deal" and "laugable comments"? people proposed of trading Gay for Monroe in your idea is not crazy?

The issues are as follows: Ross is not better than KCP at this point. he has had more time, albeit with players in front of him, to make an impression or most importantly show a consistent level of effort and understanding on the court. There are times where Ross looks like the last place he should be is on an NBA court. Secondly, the Pistons don't even own a 1st round pick in this draft, so there is another flaw in your previously proposed trade thread. Ross for a first is crazier in my eyes than Rudy for Monroe. You never know what Joe Dumars will do for a name player

[RobertArchibald]

Okay guys I don't want to create this HUGE debate regards to Jonas Valanciunas should we give up him or not. But I just want to say we were expecting JV having at around 20+ points 12+ rebounds average season, now we played 20 games into the season, we were expecting JV having at least 4-5 games of 30+ points. I apologize if I personally expecting too high from him, but I'm not the only one after he won the summer league MVP, and his international play his ceiling when the year started were really high, and many many people expected him to have stats like I have mentioned. On top of that, this is type of stats what Andre Drummond had, and I know I exaggerated a bit, but at least Drummond had recorded some eye popping stat like 30 point and 19 rebounds. But in contrast JV have none, he has yet to score a 20 point game.

This is why I want to bring up that Jonas Valanciunas is Raptors' biggest asset and JV right now has the biggest stock value, JV can simply get us a top 5 first round draft pick in this coming year.

All I'm saying is after 20 games so far this season, what JV has showed to me, Yes JV has tons of potential and could be an all star one day, BUT he could also be an average player like Darko Milicic, he is not a bust but 12 points, 8 rebounds average game, and never become 20 points 15 rebounds player.

I am not saying we should give up on him, but if we can get a top five first round draft pick this coming year, I will be seriously thinking about moving JV, again like I said so far JV has shown flesh of good but also a "BUST" side of him, and right now is his highest value to trade him, get a guy like Embiid won't hurt us at all.

I am apologize if I angry some of the JV fans, I am actually also a JV fan and a big man's fan, Raptors realistically never had a good legit seven footer center ever in their history. But it's JV's play, his stock value right now, and the upcoming deep talented draft that made me want to consider possibility trading JV.

What do you guys think? should we trade him before it's too late?

Okay I changed my word not 4-5 games over 30 points, but at least one or two games? and so far he hasn't score one single 20 point game.

re: bolded. How exactly? Need to back up assumption with evidence otherwise you're just spouting off fantasies.

[Eric Montross 00]

The issues are as follows: Ross is not better than KCP at this point. he has had more time, albeit with players in front of him, to make an impression or most importantly show a consistent level of effort and understanding on the court. There are times where Ross looks like the last place he should be is on an NBA court. Secondly, the Pistons don't even own a 1st round pick in this draft, so there is another flaw in your previously proposed trade thread. Ross for a first is crazier in my eyes than Rudy for Monroe. You never know what Joe Dumars will do for a name player

Everything you said are in your own opinion, everyone can comes up a crazy idea and stands on his opinion. you said Rudy for Monroe is not as crazy as Ross for first, I think in opposite way. But I am not genna say your comment is a laughable because you done your thinking and it's your own opinion and I don't have the right or disrespect to call your comment laughable. Some one pointed out before I realized Piston's first round pick is protected if they finish worst than 8th, which I didn't know and on the nbadraft.net it clearly shown Piston has its pick. But I still stick with my opinion that Piston still need to upgrade at SG, and I believe Ross is hellava better than KCP. You have your own opinion, you expressed your opinion and I have no problem with that, but I never judge a person's trade proposal laughable and you didn't know either that Piston has no first round pick(you knew it). And on top of everything else, you just know that all ballers or nba addicted fans watch team highlights or player highlights from youtube, maybe you are right the youtube has biased view to show player's highlights but in reality what do you expect average people to do? get strong resume and get hired by Raptors'video coordinator? then can have a better judgement and calling a player's worth correctly on this forum? Look you give me crap, and I don't take crap. you can have all the crazy trade scenarios and that's your opinion, people can correct it but you don't call people's comment laughable when people saying they read nba player and how they play and how team play from youtube highlights, that's not laughable that's what everyone does. that only person who can criticize the bias aspect of youtube highlights are fulltime paid experienced nba video coordinator. That's not you, Piston fan.

[Uncle_Si]

Some of these threads make my eyes bleed and make steam come out of my ears. It's one thing to discuss what is hypothetically possible but at some point it's ridiculous. If JV isn't averaging 40 and 20 by mid next year then we trade him. But other that that you're all being foolish. #yaheard

[peanutwoozle]

since Gay left hes been playing better hes on pace to be that 10 10 guy. remember what makes JV so special isnt that he is young or big/ high motor, its that as a Center he could be dangerous offensively he will never be a an awesome rim protector.

That's why we need to pair him with one.

[Eric Montross 00]

Some of these threads make my eyes bleed and make steam come out of my ears. It's one thing to discuss what is but at some point it's ridiculous. If JV isn't averaging 40 and 20 by mid next year then we trade him. But other that that you're all being foolish. #yaheard

All I'm saying is JV has been underachieved from his expectations and I used stats to back it up, I have already said I was exaggerating but the continuous development from last year's showing promise and fleshes of all star, then summer league MVP. We should at least expect him playing better and more of a force this year, and he hasn't done that and he was underachieved. people saying it was because of Casey's playing or Gay's demanding the ball which are all possibilities, which is why I bring it up for discussion. But like I said JV has been underachieved, and should we at least considering of at least put him on the market, he's value is at the highest, and if we might get a top five, or sorry 5th or 6th exactly 1st round pick this year and with our own pick to select Wiggins/Parker/Smart +Embiid, wouldn't be a wise thing to do? before JV which no one knows possible becoming a bust(I am sorry to say it but if he continuous to play the way he is playing for next two years, wouldn't be better if we can trade him now at his highest value for something much better in return?).