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What's your price on Amir?

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  • Craig wrote: View Post
    Hey buddy, why don't you list all tehe top 15 picks over the last 10-12 years that suck. The list is much larger. Your dramatic effect looks nice, but it holds absolutely......... zip.

    If you wanna talk numbers, and percentages on gambles.... you aint' winning this one, especially when the total package you get with Amir is as good or better than a large number of the player you have listed there.

    post of the month my ass... hahahaha
    I think you both have good points here.

    What I would recommend is look at Ujiri's and Weltman's draft history.

    Both guys are where they are because they got their start in scouting.

    Ujiri is going to build through the draft - or so he says.

    I can't wait as it, supposedly, fits their biggest strength: talent identification.

    Comment


    • Evia99 wrote: View Post
      so if we had a top ten pick in this years draft, would we trade it for amir Johnson? are u kidding me?
      no one is gonna offer that for him. and if any gm thinks that way they should be fired.
      We traded a first rounder for Lowry.

      Amir > Lowry.

      Everyone is just looking at Amir, as a non-star. But Amir is exactly the player that doesn't need to be a star to have a super-star effect. His basic numbers are irrelevant, he is always one of the leaders in the league in TS% due to his ability to finish around the rim more often than Dwight, yet also make free throws. His defense is the best on this team, and better than most "stars" (Brook Lopez).
      So not only is he going to finish no matter what and make his freethrows, he rebounds well, he defends very well, and guess what, he can even step out for a 3 (or midrange) if the defense sleeps on him.
      He hustles, is never hurt (how many games has he missed?), and he is an excellent character in the locker room.

      This is a Vet at the age of 26.

      You guys simply don't value him as much as some of us, but I would never throw Amir away for a late lottery pick which gives me a 15% chance of getting someone better than him in the past 15 years.
      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

      Comment


      • enlightenment wrote: View Post
        You guys simply don't value him as much as some of us, but I would never throw Amir away for a late lottery pick which gives me a 15% chance of getting someone better than him in the past 15 years.
        You think the guys listed in my list are just the guys "better" than Amir??
        No the list better than Amir is much much longer, that's the list of multiple All-stars, the list of All-NBA'ers and the list of guys that did something that will be remembered in 20 years. Not a list of guys who played at the level of a great energy guy.

        Comment


        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
          I think you both have good points here.

          What I would recommend is look at Ujiri's and Weltman's draft history.

          Both guys are where they are because they got their start in scouting.

          Ujiri is going to build through the draft - or so he says.

          I can't wait as it, supposedly, fits their biggest strength: talent identification.
          I welcome all moves made by UM as long as the make toronto much better.

          Comment


          • themasao wrote: View Post
            People are saying they would be ecstatic to get a 5-10 range pick or even a 10-15 pick in exchange for Johnson (some even less, but I'll ignore that for now). Just to put some perspective on the top 10 pick rhetoric:

            It's generally agreed that this is the best draft class since 2003, but not as good a draft class as 2003. If you had had a 5-10 pick in 2003 you would have got one of the following 5 players: Dwayne Wade, Chris Kaman, Kirk Hinrich, TJ Ford, Michael Sweetney, Jarvis Hayes.

            Only one of those players is currently better than Amir, and its debatable to whether any have ever been as good as Amir is now (never been a huge fan of Kaman but you could maybe make the argument).

            If you expand to look at the 10-15 picks you're looking at: Jarvis Hayes, Mikael Pietrus, Nick Collison, Marcus Banks, Luke Ridnour or Reece Gains.

            So of the 5 - 15 picks that you all covet so much, in a draft that everyone admits is at most as good as this one, you are likely to get ONE PLAYER better than Amir. That's a 10% chance, but really, it's much worse than that, because only a top 5 pick would have secured you that player.

            They hype around the 'unknown' and 'potential' aspects of draft picks reminds me a lot of this:
            Fair enough in that draft class .. but how about much more recent. Id say of last year's draft, Id say that 3 of the 5 players from 6 to 10 are ALREADY better than Amir - Lillard, Barnes and Drummond (arguably quite a bit better). The jury is out on TR (although right now I think Id take his future over Amir's) and Rivers stinks. That was in a weak draft.
            So - not as much of a crapshoot as you suggest ..

            Comment


            • enlightenment wrote: View Post
              We traded a first rounder for Lowry.

              Amir > Lowry.

              Everyone is just looking at Amir, as a non-star. But Amir is exactly the player that doesn't need to be a star to have a super-star effect. His basic numbers are irrelevant, he is always one of the leaders in the league in TS% due to his ability to finish around the rim more often than Dwight, yet also make free throws. His defense is the best on this team, and better than most "stars" (Brook Lopez).
              So not only is he going to finish no matter what and make his freethrows, he rebounds well, he defends very well, and guess what, he can even step out for a 3 (or midrange) if the defense sleeps on him.
              He hustles, is never hurt (how many games has he missed?), and he is an excellent character in the locker room.

              This is a Vet at the age of 26.

              You guys simply don't value him as much as some of us, but I would never throw Amir away for a late lottery pick which gives me a 15% chance of getting someone better than him in the past 15 years.
              colangelo traded a first rounder for lowry. everyone agreed that was a bad trade at the time.

              Comment


              • Letter N wrote: View Post
                That's great, maybe one day you'll also notice how the NBA works. Every team has an Amir Johnson, Amir Johnson's show up on crappy teams all the time. Only a handful of teams have stars that can take you to the 2nd round. Stars that show up in Toronto get drafted.
                See thats your opinion. Clearly I believe Amir is a special player.

                Amir is #1 PF (played at least 20 mpg) this season in TS% with .645. 2nd is Dirk with .601

                For comparison Lebron has a TS% of .680

                He has been doing this for years in a row.

                He is also at a def rating of 98.7, which is the best on this team, and top-10 for PFs.

                Not every team has someone like Amir at 26 with his capabilities.
                The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                Comment


                • Evia99 wrote: View Post
                  so if we had a top ten pick in this years draft, would we trade it for amir Johnson? are u kidding me?
                  no one is gonna offer that for him. and if any gm thinks that way they should be fired.
                  Simple, concise, and blindingly obvious

                  Comment


                  • Evia99 wrote: View Post
                    colangelo traded a first rounder for lowry. everyone agreed that was a bad trade at the time.
                    WHAT?

                    That was clearly a great trade. Who is this everyone you speak off??

                    We are about to get way more for Lowry than just a late lottery pick.
                    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                    Comment


                    • Letter N wrote: View Post
                      You think the guys listed in my list are just the guys "better" than Amir??
                      No the list better than Amir is much much longer, that's the list of multiple All-stars, the list of All-NBA'ers and the list of guys that did something that will be remembered in 20 years. Not a list of guys who played at the level of a great energy guy.
                      We are talking about players available late lottery. Because thats what you guys are claiming to throw him out for.

                      Are we talking top 5 picks? Then clearly its a different story. But you gave us your faveourite players from 8-18 in the past 15 years, and it accounted to 15% likelihood to get one of them. I would never trade Amir for the 15% chance to draft the players you mentioned.

                      I would give him up for early lottery though, for obvious reasons, such as the likelihood of getting someone better than Amir increases exponentially every draft position you increase by.
                      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                      Comment


                      • Letter N wrote: View Post
                        I want what you're drinking.



                        1) How does it make this team better?
                        This team sucks. You might as well try and do something.

                        2) You're going to get a franchise changer with a late lotto pick? Really?

                        In the last 15 years
                        Dirk Nowitzki (9)
                        Paul Pierce (10)
                        Shawn Marion (9)
                        Ron Artest (16)
                        Joe Johnson (10)
                        Zach Randolph (19)
                        Amare Stoudemire (9)
                        David West (18)
                        Andre Iguodala (9)
                        Al Jefferson (15)
                        Josh Smith (17)
                        Andrew Bynum (10)
                        Danny Granger (17)
                        Rudy Gay (8)
                        Joakim Noah (9)
                        Brook Lopez (10)
                        Roy Hibbert (17)
                        Steph Curry (7)
                        Jrue Holiday (17)
                        Ty Lawson (18)
                        Paul George (10)
                        Eric Bledsoe (18)
                        Klay Thompson (11)
                        Kwahi Leonard (15)
                        Andre Drummond (9)
                        Look where those guys were drafted - They were not identified as the top picks of their draft class = throw some mud against the wall and hope it sticks. The draft isn't a science and most of the time you don't even know if it was a good pick until 3 years out - sometimes longer. So the whole plan here is to hope the Raptors get lucky????????
                        The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

                        Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report

                        Comment


                        • Do you really want to trade Amir! He is the heart and soul of the Toronto Raptor team!! I would suggest trading a lot of other people before you got to Amir ! Just my opinion but I think it would be too much for the fan base to handle trading Amir!! He is a fan favorite!!!!

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                          • brothersteve wrote: View Post
                            Look where those guys were drafted - They were not identified as the top picks of their draft class = throw some mud against the wall and hope it sticks. The draft isn't a science and most of the time you don't even know if it was a good pick until 3 years out - sometimes longer. So the whole plan here is to hope the Raptors get lucky????????
                            No matter what Toronto does, or any team, there is an element of luck involved.

                            You and Doug Smith must be besties, eh?

                            Comment


                            • brothersteve wrote: View Post
                              Look where those guys were drafted - They were not identified as the top picks of their draft class = throw some mud against the wall and hope it sticks. The draft isn't a science and most of the time you don't even know if it was a good pick until 3 years out - sometimes longer. So the whole plan here is to hope the Raptors get lucky????????
                              As opposed to what plan that doesn't involve luck?
                              Last edited by thead; Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:01 PM. Reason: keep it clean

                              Comment


                              • Letter N wrote: View Post
                                You think the guys listed in my list are just the guys "better" than Amir??
                                No the list better than Amir is much much longer, that's the list of multiple All-stars, the list of All-NBA'ers and the list of guys that did something that will be remembered in 20 years. Not a list of guys who played at the level of a great energy guy.
                                You put Rudy Gay on that list.

                                I'll let that sink in...

                                Comment

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