What's your price on Amir?

[mountio]

Your inability, or refusal, whichever it is, to acknowledge just how important the shit you just said you liked about him are when building a winner is pretty baffling to me. especially in a market like Toronto.

what winner has be built us in 7 years here? Did i miss that? If this was Miami and we already had superstars .. I agree, Id keep Amir. But for our situation (or a similar mediocre team) - he just doesnt do much to move the needle

[mountio]

What was Horace grant to Chicago?

Grant was WAY WAY WAY better than Amir. Grant is a closer comp to CB4 on Miami than he is to Amir .. lets be serious

[Superjudge]

Id say the same thing .. anyone who blue skies their own players and isnt willing to look at them objectively through the eyes of GMs from another team can ... go fly a kite.

If you want to value a guy based on hyperbole from hometown fans, thats your prerogative, but dont suggest to me that we can get a top ten pick for a guy when the rest of the league doesnt believe its true.

Well clearly you arent reading my posts.

Nice work fella.

[Superjudge]

Grant was WAY WAY WAY better than Amir. Grant is a closer comp to CB4 on Miami than he is to Amir .. lets be serious

heh.

Might I ask, how old are you?

[mountio]

heh.

Might I ask, how old are you?

Not sure why its relevant, but 35. You?

[mcHAPPY]

Not sure why its relevant, but 35. You?

Lol

Anyone rocking the Mountie from the old school wwf is not under 30

[Letter N]

What was Horace grant to Chicago?

Replaceable.

[Superjudge]

Not much older. i ask because if you're older, than you watched The bulls through those years, we had no choice, thats all they showed back then. If thats the case, how on earth could you say that about Horace grant? They are the same type of player. Period. Hit the same shots, play the same d, grabs the same boards, hit the same shots. Saying Horace grant is basically chris Bosh????? Wtf man.

If there is an edge, perhaps it might be attributed to a kick ass system and a hell of a complimentary starting 5. But to suggest he was WAY better than Amir....sorry man, thats not accurate, it just isn't.

And to clarify, the reason im on you is that you are on me about shit I didn't even come close to saying. dont jump on a guy if you dont read his posts closely, thats not good man. I dont think Amir could get a top ten in this draft. But I sure as shit dont give him away for anything higher, he's a very good player, better than you wanna give credit, and he's a solid team guy, which bodes well when trying to build a winning team/ culture. And all this shit about 7 years , no winners yadda ficking yadda...are you really gonna pin that on a player like Amir? He was a fucking bright spot all those years, not a detriment.

Anyhow. You're clearly a bright guy, thank god, but fuck man, i cant go with ya on this one. everything you're saying is based off an assessment I just dont buy.

[Superjudge]

Replaceable.

hahah ok man

[Superjudge]

Not sure why its relevant, but 35. You?

and yes its fucking relevant.

[mountio]

Lol

Anyone rocking the Mountie from the old school wwf is not under 30

Sad, but true. Unless you really got into the vintage WWF shows that still play these days, it would be hard to appreciate the Mountie's flare without growing up experiencing it ...

[Superjudge]

likely why i hated you before I read your post...i effin hated the MOuntie hahaha

[MangoKid]

I like Amir. Usually 4's are a dime a dozen, but AJ has a lot of stuff you can't measure - good intangibles, and he's a glue guy, and that can't be undermined. His value right now is pretty good. If you can get a real sweetheart package for him, I would think hard about moving him, otherwise, I'd just as much keep him around.

[themasao]

Anyone dragging out ESPN player rankings to tech me the value of a player I am actually watching, with my own eyes, can go fly a kite.

Good lord.


As for trading him then signing him in a year, if he's down, hell ya, that can work....er.... can it?

This. If you're measuring players based on the standards of ESPN rankings. I'm not surprised that we disagree on how valuable Amir is compared to someone like Barnes.

Johnson has an offensive rating of 104.3 compared to Barnes' 99.5 and a defensive rating of 98.7 compared to Barnes' 103.0 for an overall net rating of 5.5 compared to -3.4.

But if ESPN says Barnes is better........

[mountio]

Not much older. i ask because if you're older, than you watched The bulls through those years, we had no choice, thats all they showed back then. If thats the case, how on earth could you say that about Horace grant? They are the same type of player. Period. Hit the same shots, play the same d, grabs the same boards, hit the same shots. Saying Horace grant is basically chris Bosh????? Wtf man.

If there is an edge, perhaps it might be attributed to a kick ass system and a hell of a complimentary starting 5. But to suggest he was WAY better than Amir....sorry man, thats not accurate, it just isn't.

And to clarify, the reason im on you is that you are on me about shit I didn't even come close to saying. dont jump on a guy if you dont read his posts closely, thats not good man. I dont think Amir could get a top ten in this draft. But I sure as shit dont give him away for anything higher, he's a very good player, better than you wanna give credit, and he's a solid team guy, which bodes well when trying to build a winning team/ culture. And all this shit about 7 years , no winners yadda ficking yadda...are you really gonna pin that on a player like Amir? He was a fucking bright spot all those years, not a detriment.

Anyhow. You're clearly a bright guy, thank god, but fuck man, i cant go with ya on this one. everything you're saying is based off an assessment I just dont buy.

Yes, I grew up a Bulls fan (like you say, there wasnt much else to watch at the time.) And one thing that is clear about Horace Grant is that he WAS the third banana on those teams. I havent looked at his stats (I clearly wasnt roaming basketball-reference in those days) - and will write this response from memory .. but will probably be too tempted to confirm my memory afterwards. [so maybe more to come in a subsequent post]

Anyways - here is what I remember about those bulls teams. If you talk big 3 .. it was always jordan, pippen and grant (obviosly replaced by Rodman / Kucoc as the years went on). I have NEVER, EVER heard Amir referred to as the third option, third best player, third anything on the raps [small correction, with the exception of this thread and a guy named Buddhafan who used to sing his praises here].
Grant was money from the high post. Knocked down Js and scored as part of the offense. Amir is probably a better finisher around the rim / garbage collecter, but Horace was much, much better in the offense. Think about how Miami uses Bosh now, and you cant honestly tell me that the role isnt similar to Grant. (I know bosh has more allstar games etc - but in terms of role on the team, its pretty damn close to me). Grant was also a very solid post defender.
Amir? Night and day difference. Has little to no role in the offense, outside of cleaning up misses, running the floor and, yes, hitting the odd J .. but a much smaller percentage of his hoops come in the context of the offense. Also, not a great defender (ok, but not great).
Soo .. I could go on, but again, Ill reiterate, that you are comparing the third best player on one of the best teams ever to a role player on the Raps. And you think Im out to lunch? I just dont get it ...