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  • #31
    Axel wrote: View Post
    Not necessarily. Switching is a team by team, situation by situation basis. As I said in my post, JV should have hedged the screen and forced Kemba to take a different angle, but switching isn't necessarily the plan. If JV hedges properly, then Kemba catches the ball near the timeline and Lowry would have had more time to get back on him, with Kemba moving away from the hoop, a significantly more difficult shot. As a result, Kemba basically got a warm up jumper.
    I'm not sure about that. He was fading while taking a shot mere inches over Val's hand.



    (starts at 2:35)

    I thought the worst part of the play was that Lowry gave up on it, but for the most part it was just a great shot by Walker.

    Comment


    • #32
      Mediumcore wrote: View Post
      You can't seriously think that they place player development over wins do you? The coaches job first and foremost is to put the team in the best position to win games. Regardless of where the season is headed that is always the mandate.

      I think Casey has done a pretty good job with player development as well. Bargnani had his best year under Casey, Amir, DeMar are both flourishing under Casey as well. True he doesn't play JV and Ross as much as we would like, but again, it's about placing his team in the best position to win, not for young players to develop.
      I can't find the quote now but a month or two ago, Masai Ujiri made it very clear that Dwane Casey would be judged on his ability to develop players when considering a contract extension.
      "Bruno?
      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
      He's terrible."

      -Superjudge, 7/23

      Hope you're wrong.

      Comment


      • #33
        Mediumcore wrote: View Post
        LOL, oh man that was hilarious!! It's like you think the coaches priority is to sacrafice wins to get JV more experience. You and I and everyone else at the forum that doesn't care much for where this season is headed may want to see JV get minutes, but you must realize the coach has an agenda which includes winning first right?
        on no planet, including this one, is JV, deficiencies and all, a worse basketball player, in any way/shape/form, than patrick patterson. if what you're saying is true, and that the coach's primary motive is to win, then you accomplish that by having your best players on the floor as much as possible. and whether you're ready to accept it or not, JV is one of the team's best players already, despite his shortcomings. this league is about reps...you get better by playing, not sitting & watching & thinking. playing. PLAYING.

        i'm not going to speculate (too much) on the allocation of minutes. i assume it's partly to enforce a 'tough love' approach with JV, while also showcasing some of the newer guys in the hope that their respective trade value is increased. the tank-nation GI in me hopes that casey is either in on the tank, or that he's so incompetent, him trying to win games by coaching at his 'best' is just enough to pull off a nice little clandestine tank job.
        TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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        • #34
          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          ...You might of hears of them. For his first couple of years he had coach named Sam Mitchell. You might of heard of him to. During their tenure together Sam was hard on Barney not letting him get away with anything. Barney was lost a lot of times on D. Him being a big that really leaves you with no help D. Sam Mitchell kept him accountable and that kept Andrea on the bench for 2 years. Than Sam was fired cause he wouldn't play Andrea even though he would make countless mistakes on D. The rest is pretty much history. [/URL]
          ok, first off, it's 'have,' not 'of,' as in 'you might have hears (sic) of them.'

          now that that's out of the way, yes, JV's defense has left something to be desired. if, however, you're equating andrea bargnani's approach to D (it was his rebounding that put him in smitch's doghouse as much, if not more than, his overall D, btw), then i think you're running off into an area that's really kind of unsubstantiated. yes, JV's currently a below avearge defender.

          bargnani was bad. B.A.D. BBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDD

          there is a difference.
          TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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          • #35
            Craiger wrote: View Post
            I'm not sure about that. He was fading while taking a shot mere inches over Val's hand.



            (starts at 2:35)

            I thought the worst part of the play was that Lowry gave up on it, but for the most part it was just a great shot by Walker.
            I'm honestly not sure what point you're "not sure about". If JV hedges, then it's a completely different shot (different location, different momentum, different inbounds pass, different timing). JV was late on the pressure and it left Kemba with a wide open lane to an easy catch and shot. Watch warm-ups (from any team) and you'll see the exact same shot from half the players.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • #36
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              This is ridiculous. Apart from the fact that you're assuming Amir automatically makes this play, there are other things that were wrong with what actually happened.

              -First of all, and most importantly, if there's one time where Casey should be worried about Jonas not being his quickest player, it should be when there's 1 second left and the opposing team is forced to shoot a buzzer beater. They weren't going to dump it in to Al Jefferson in the post with a second left. From a coaching perspective, this is the worst situation to have Jonas in. So even giving you the fact that Jonas didn't do the best job, Casey put him in that position despite not realizing that the best reason to have Jonas on the floor, which is covering Al Jefferson, was totally pointless. I'm sure I'm not the only huge Jonas fan who was puzzled as hell as to why Casey didn't put his quickest players on the floor, say Amir and 4 perimeter guys for example. They didn't have time for a post play, Jefferson isn't useful for alley-oops or tip-ins, and there was no time for a rebound. Shitty coaching decision. **And if Casey was so worried about Jefferson that he felt he had to have Jonas in, even if it's not the likeliest play, then Jonas' presence was essential to him, as he probably felt anyone else would've been pushed right under the basket by Al and maybe give up an even easier shot.

              -Second, Lowry didn't fight through the play AT ALL. It's been a bad trend with Lowry, DeMar, and Gay before he was traded. They play screens weakly and expect the big man to cover their ass every time. That's also unacceptable, because if the guard had been sticking to Walker and fighting harder, maybe they're not able to make that play anyway because the pass seems too tight to squeeze.

              -Thirdly, given Jonas' inexperience, Lowry, an experienced player and supposedly strong defender, should be screaming that switch as soon as he sees the screen. I don't know if he did. None of us do. If he didn't, it's just as much Lowry's fault as it is Jonas. If it's someone like Garnett (since we're allowed to randomly speculate), you know he's calling that out and making sure his teammate is aware. Lowry didn't even look like he cared about the play, so I really do question both his effort and communication.

              There are 4 other teammates on the floor responsible for helping on D (even if just through communication), and a coach responsible for making the best decisions to put the team in a position to win. You're pinning the loss on one guy for one play where he was a split second late, despite the fact that there were a considerable amount of errors made by everyone else during the game, especially in the quarter and a half where Jonas was on the bench (where the team coughed up a lead very quickly, and where the coach made inexplicably poor decisions). You gotta stop throwing Jonas under the bus.

              *I mean, I don't see you criticizing DeMar for missing a crucial free throw despite being an 80% ft shooter. Or for finishing the game 3-10 after starting 8-16. Or again, Lowry for his poor defensive effort on Kemba for much of the game. Or Vasquez, our new pass-first PG, for absolutely destroying our offensive flow with several poor shots during his second half stint on the court. Or Ross, for putting up a terrible dud of a game in general on both ends.
              I agree with this. further to this, you can make an argument that they were expecting that ball to get pounded into the paint, and I would bet JV was told to stay home on that inbound play and not get caught chasing, therefore leaving an easy two inside.

              Centers are not expected to guard the paint and then simply "pop" out to close out on a 3 point shooter with super efficiency. Guys saying he is slow, or wasn't thinking....perhaps a tiny bit from column a, a bit from column, but read that play.

              Its always a fans first inclination to give ZERO credit to the other team, that was a really nice play to free Kemba up coming through the high post screen. Lowry didn't read it well and got crunched because Jefferson rolled off the screen nicely and pushed Lowry, a borderline O-foul but not enough to get the whistle. JV actually covered a massive amount of ground chasing Kemba to the corner, and missed blocking the shot by about 8 inches... he makes that last 8 inches, you guys are all applauding how much hustle he showed. And again, nice play by Charlotte, but I will say this my own personal thoughts on guarding the guy inbounding the ball, you have to know who he is, and McRoberts isn't jacking it up from 26 feet, #54 for the Raps, patterson maybe? Should have backed off just enough to mix it up with Walker there... I don't know how many of you agree, I just always like getting in lanes and disrupting....sometimes it makes sense not to guard the inbounds guy at all so you have a guy to pick up guys off screens....again, easy to say after, but it makes sense.

              What remains for me, is that JV is young, and I hope he gets a bit faster, but this play, this ain't on him, not enough to draw any conclusion or criticism at all.

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              • #37
                yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                the tank-nation GI in me hopes that casey is either in on the tank, or that he's so incompetent, him trying to win games by coaching at his 'best' is just enough to pull off a nice little clandestine tank job.
                Shhhhh.

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                • #38
                  Craig wrote: View Post
                  Its always a fans first inclination to give ZERO credit to the other team, that was a really nice play to free Kemba up coming through the high post screen. Lowry didn't read it well and got crunched because Jefferson rolled off the screen nicely and pushed Lowry, a borderline O-foul but not enough to get the whistle. JV actually covered a massive amount of ground chasing Kemba to the corner, and missed blocking the shot by about 8 inches... he makes that last 8 inches, you guys are all applauding how much hustle he showed. And again, nice play by Charlotte, but I will say this my own personal thoughts on guarding the guy inbounding the ball, you have to know who he is, and McRoberts isn't jacking it up from 26 feet, #54 for the Raps, patterson maybe? Should have backed off just enough to mix it up with Walker there... I don't know how many of you agree, I just always like getting in lanes and disrupting....sometimes it makes sense not to guard the inbounds guy at all so you have a guy to pick up guys off screens....again, easy to say after, but it makes sense.
                  On the bold, in this situation, I think I prefer the tight coverage on the inbounds. There isn't much time on the clock, so disrupting the passing angle is a big priority. If Patterson drops back into "coverage", how much space is he likely to be able to stay with Kemba? And if he follows Kemba, then it just opens up an even easier passing lane for Henderson using the same Jefferson screen at the top. Or Patterson ends up in no man's land and isn't really disrupting either.

                  I think forcing the passer to get it over Patterson would have slowed the ball enough that the defender can close better. Give JV an extra 0.5 seconds and maybe he erases those 8 inches.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • #39
                    maybe...like I said, its a preference. there are different ways to guard plays..... my theory works with the no times aspect as well, as there isnt enough time to get a return to McRoberts and a good look, so you should be able to limit good entries with switches and an extra man if your big stays home....

                    easy for us to say i guess.... nice play though, Kemba to be honest, just showed the Raptors how to rub off a scree correctly.

                    good Basketball

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                      This is ridiculous. Apart from the fact that you're assuming Amir automatically makes this play, there are other things that were wrong with what actually happened.

                      -First of all, and most importantly, if there's one time where Casey should be worried about Jonas not being his quickest player, it should be when there's 1 second left and the opposing team is forced to shoot a buzzer beater. They weren't going to dump it in to Al Jefferson in the post with a second left. From a coaching perspective, this is the worst situation to have Jonas in. So even giving you the fact that Jonas didn't do the best job, Casey put him in that position despite not realizing that the best reason to have Jonas on the floor, which is covering Al Jefferson, was totally pointless. I'm sure I'm not the only huge Jonas fan who was puzzled as hell as to why Casey didn't put his quickest players on the floor, say Amir and 4 perimeter guys for example. They didn't have time for a post play, Jefferson isn't useful for alley-oops or tip-ins, and there was no time for a rebound. Shitty coaching decision. **And if Casey was so worried about Jefferson that he felt he had to have Jonas in, even if it's not the likeliest play, then Jonas' presence was essential to him, as he probably felt anyone else would've been pushed right under the basket by Al and maybe give up an even easier shot.

                      -Second, Lowry didn't fight through the play AT ALL. It's been a bad trend with Lowry, DeMar, and Gay before he was traded. They play screens weakly and expect the big man to cover their ass every time. That's also unacceptable, because if the guard had been sticking to Walker and fighting harder, maybe they're not able to make that play anyway because the pass seems too tight to squeeze.

                      -Thirdly, given Jonas' inexperience, Lowry, an experienced player and supposedly strong defender, should be screaming that switch as soon as he sees the screen. I don't know if he did. None of us do. If he didn't, it's just as much Lowry's fault as it is Jonas. If it's someone like Garnett (since we're allowed to randomly speculate), you know he's calling that out and making sure his teammate is aware. Lowry didn't even look like he cared about the play, so I really do question both his effort and communication.

                      There are 4 other teammates on the floor responsible for helping on D (even if just through communication), and a coach responsible for making the best decisions to put the team in a position to win. You're pinning the loss on one guy for one play where he was a split second late, despite the fact that there were a considerable amount of errors made by everyone else during the game, especially in the quarter and a half where Jonas was on the bench (where the team coughed up a lead very quickly, and where the coach made inexplicably poor decisions). You gotta stop throwing Jonas under the bus.

                      *I mean, I don't see you criticizing DeMar for missing a crucial free throw despite being an 80% ft shooter. Or for finishing the game 3-10 after starting 8-16. Or again, Lowry for his poor defensive effort on Kemba for much of the game. Or Vasquez, our new pass-first PG, for absolutely destroying our offensive flow with several poor shots during his second half stint on the court. Or Ross, for putting up a terrible dud of a game in general on both ends.
                      Agree with everything in this post except the bolded. It's not Lowry's switch to call. It's JVs. JV has to communicate that screen and call the switch (which should be obvious with 1 second left). Either way, glad he was on the floor to experience that misstep. Will only make him better.
                      There's math, and everything else is debatable.

                      @clericalbeats

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Craig wrote: View Post
                        I agree with this. further to this, you can make an argument that they were expecting that ball to get pounded into the paint, and I would bet JV was told to stay home on that inbound play and not get caught chasing, therefore leaving an easy two inside.
                        I just don't see any argument that can be made here. There was one second left on the clock.. Kemba barely got the jumper off. How would they think someone like Jefferson could get a post move in?
                        Twitter - @thekid_it

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                        • #42
                          You develop bad habits if you just left out there playing making the same mistakes. Which is what happens to Andrea under coach Triano. Andrea was unleashed and we went on to have the worst D in NBA HISTORY! When it comes to D I will never doubt Casey. I'm pretty sure we're a top15 Defensive team. After the way Patrick Patterson and AJ shut down Boozer the last game I don't blame Casey for to them over JV. Patrick is Stronger, Quicker, and has more experience. Amir is just Amir. There should never be a complaint about Amir playing more than JV. Never!


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • #43
                            isaacthompson wrote: View Post
                            I just don't see any argument that can be made here. There was one second left on the clock.. Kemba barely got the jumper off. How would they think someone like Jefferson could get a post move in?
                            I dont know man, I have seen quite a few post dumps on last second plays...in fact, its pretty well known that you have to be wary of a bunny from 3 feet.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                              on no planet, including this one, is JV, deficiencies and all, a worse basketball player, in any way/shape/form, than patrick patterson. if what you're saying is true, and that the coach's primary motive is to win, then you accomplish that by having your best players on the floor as much as possible. and whether you're ready to accept it or not, JV is one of the team's best players already, despite his shortcomings. this league is about reps...you get better by playing, not sitting & watching & thinking. playing. PLAYING.

                              i'm not going to speculate (too much) on the allocation of minutes. i assume it's partly to enforce a 'tough love' approach with JV, while also showcasing some of the newer guys in the hope that their respective trade value is increased. the tank-nation GI in me hopes that casey is either in on the tank, or that he's so incompetent, him trying to win games by coaching at his 'best' is just enough to pull off a nice little clandestine tank job.
                              JV, is a more talented player, and I'm not denying that in any way, but he's constantly lost on the defensive end. Patterson might be smaller, less athletic, uglier, and a whole bunch of other things, but he knows the play, understands positioning and performs the role he is out there to to.

                              My whole point is that Casey's priority is to try and win the game and not to give JV the minutes we all would prefer he have over other guys that likely won't be here in the teams future. In order to win you sometimes have to play the less talented player that knows what they are supposed to do in the scheme of the defense, as opposed to the more talented player that doesn't always have a clue. JV is being brought along slower than we like, but he's getting a good amount of minutes and it's a long season.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                isaacthompson wrote: View Post
                                I just don't see any argument that can be made here. There was one second left on the clock.. Kemba barely got the jumper off. How would they think someone like Jefferson could get a post move in?
                                Exactly! With 1.0 all you get is a shot. You could tell JV knew he was suppose to switch but he didn't react he thought about it and than reacted. By the time JV got in the picture the ball had already left Kemba's hands.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                @Chr1st1anL

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