"The Middle"

[TheMarfin]

Ujiri not wanting this team to be caught in the middle of the pack is something that seems to get thrown around a lot on this forum. What do people define as the middle and what do you think MU defines as the middle? A scenario in which the Raptors win the Atlantic or win a first round playoff series would technically slot us in as a top 8 team in the league. Could either of these things happen? Looks more possible now than it did when he made those comments. Is it easier to avoid the middle by going up and not down? I think at this point the anti-tank crowd can be just as well served by those words as the pro-tank crowd. Just some food for thought.

[Shrub]

Treadmill is more appropriate than middle.
Quite simply, it's a team that lacks direction - never quite horrible, never quite good.

The numbers don't matter much (top 8), it's the context that does.
What's the point of winning the Atlantic with a losing record?
It's still losing.

The concern is, as I understand it, that it will be tricky for us to get a superstar talent anywhere else than from the draft.
I think this is a very legitimate concern, as I for one believe that Toronto being a Canadian city matters a lot to free agents.

I'm a glass half-full dude and I enjoy the games and wins as they come, but I can't see any strategic position that would be better for us to be in at the end of the year than netting a top 5 pick in that 2014 draft.

[charlesnba23]

What do you guys mean by ''superstar talent''? How many guys in this league are in this category? As we talk, when I look at guys like Lowry and DeMar, I see more and more of that star talent. But that's my point of view!

[CalgaryRapsFan]

MU referred to it as the NBA's "no man's land", which I personally take to be on the playoff bubble, where the ceiling is the first round.

The Raptors currently have the 10th fewest wins in the league, but are defaulted to the 4th spot in the EC because they are leading an historically weak division by % points. Brooklyn is showing signs of life with some players returning from injury (mainly DWill), as are the Knicks (Chandler is and soon Felton will be back from injury). Boston has one more win than Toronto, but has played 3 more games.

Regardless of the direction MU intends to take this team, I think they currently epitomize "no man's land". A few wins would give them home-court advantage in the EC, while a few losses (and wins by Atlantic division teams) would bump them into the bottom-5 in the entire league (only 3 more wins than the teams with the 2nd fewest wins).

I'm not advocating tanking in this assessment, because with a few shrewd moves, MU could turn this team into a legitimate contender to get to the 2nd round this season (the debate about sustainability is a different discussion altogether). The point is, this team looks to be destined for "no man's land", so I fully expect more moves to be made before the deadline. As to whether this team goes all-in for the playoffs or signals a rebuilding/retooling, that is anybody's guess at this point.

[Wiggins]

2nd round is still "no man's land". Nothing the raps could get this year will help them to challenge miami or indy (or even chicago next year with drose).The raps need a top lottery piece this year.

[mcHAPPY]

What do you guys mean by ''superstar talent''? How many guys in this league are in this category? As we talk, when I look at guys like Lowry and DeMar, I see more and more of that star talent. But that's my point of view!

The MO has changed.

It is no longer about making the playoffs.

TL raised the bar and expectations to competing for championships.... Check my signature.

There has only been one team in 33 years to win championship without bonafide superstar.

[iblastoff]

MU has said multiple times that it's easy to just build a playoff team. He's not interested in doing just that. So yes, a useless and short lived playoff berth = no mans land.

[MrBlack]

Treadmill is more appropriate than middle.
Quite simply, it's a team that lacks direction - never quite horrible, never quite good.

The numbers don't matter much (top 8), it's the context that does.
What's the point of winning the Atlantic with a losing record?
It's still losing.

To add to that, what's the point of winning the division, with a losing record, 2nd round best case scenario etc, with a $70m payroll.

I think that is a big part of MU's mediocrity avoidance. Build the team with flexibility first and foremost, until the opportunity comes to add star players who are worth more than their max deals. There are a lot of teams in the same "2nd round-best case scenario" and the real problem there is that they don't have the ability to make any more significant moves.

[mcHAPPY]

To add to that, what's the point of winning the division, with a losing record, 2nd round best case scenario etc, with a $70m payroll.

I think that is a big part of MU's mediocrity avoidance. Build the team with flexibility first and foremost, until the opportunity comes to add star players who are worth more than their max deals. There are a lot of teams in the same "2nd round-best case scenario" and the real problem there is that they don't have the ability to make any more significant moves.

The Gay trade solved the luxury tax situation.

It gave a little more room on the cap front but extending/re-signing Lowry takes the Raptors over the cap (assumption: Salmons is waived; if Salmons paid $7M next year, ummmm, yeah, there is always 2015).

[KeonClark]

So basically for all you tankers: you would rather at this point A) get our ass kicked in most remaining games and watch everybody go from somewhat successful back to being a bunch of losers for a say 40% chance at a player who may or may not even turn out to be an all star coming out of the draft

or B) keep it up, make the 2nd round of the playoffs, watch Jonas avg nearly 14-10 by the end of the year, develop a culture, maybe hit .500, and STILL possibly draft well

[Balls of Steel]

Its safe to assume that this team and it's current hustle is really unsustainable from a players standpoint. As much as I enjoy the wins, the team simply cannot keep this going. They are merely auditioning for other teams (ie. DeRozan and Lowry). MU raises the value and will eventually unload them. Current streak is fool's gold.

[mcHAPPY]

So basically for all you tankers: you would rather at this point A) get our ass kicked in most remaining games and watch everybody go from somewhat successful back to being a bunch of losers for a say 40% chance at a player who may or may not even turn out to be an all star coming out of the draft

or B) keep it up, make the 2nd round of the playoffs, watch Jonas avg nearly 14-10 by the end of the year, develop a culture, maybe hit .500, and STILL possibly draft well

Get ass kicked?

Do even read posters comments who support a high draft pick?

[Superjudge]

a) players get it. They know why the tank is on, they know who is there.
b) non-tankers got their wish, Toronto filled your little weasel hearts with instant joy with a little run that took them out of the running for a great puck and a chance to be real in the future.

No Wiggans
No Embiid
No Parker, Smart or Randle.


Just a High pick and a .22345% chance at it being a guy that actually stays in the league for 3 years.


Yeeeeeehaw.


Now you have to play the "boy, i really hope sombody comes" game.

Comes here

to canada

with the taxes and snow and metric system


Good luck with that my "purist" friends. One day you will learn that us "tankers" arent so off the mark

This season is ruined.
The next 5 years, ruined

[CalgaryRapsFan]

So basically for all you tankers: you would rather at this point A) get our ass kicked in most remaining games and watch everybody go from somewhat successful back to being a bunch of losers for a say 40% chance at a player who may or may not even turn out to be an all star coming out of the draft

or B) keep it up, make the 2nd round of the playoffs, watch Jonas avg nearly 14-10 by the end of the year, develop a culture, maybe hit .500, and STILL possibly draft well

Can you please read some past threads about "tanking" to get off your high-horse about part-A. Nobody has ever wanted what you suggest, so stop throwing that out as what "pro-tankers" actually want. Nobody on here supports a strategy of putting all our eggs in one basket, such as the Raptors' own 2014 1st round pick.

"Pro-tankers" want "C", which is a much better team with a much higher ceiling, built properly, for sustainable success as perennial contenders. Rebuilding this season, leading into the loaded 2014 draft is just the start of an ongoing team-building process, not the final solution.

[Mediumcore]

What do you guys mean by ''superstar talent''? How many guys in this league are in this category? As we talk, when I look at guys like Lowry and DeMar, I see more and more of that star talent. But that's my point of view!

A superstar is a guy that is the best player on the floor or on par with the best player on the floor more nights than not