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  • #16
    Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Its safe to assume that this team and it's current hustle is really unsustainable from a players standpoint. As much as I enjoy the wins, the team simply cannot keep this going. They are merely auditioning for other teams (ie. DeRozan and Lowry). MU raises the value and will eventually unload them. Current streak is fool's gold.
    I would definitely prefer to take a step backwards and shoot for a high pick but the current streak might not be fool's gold. I use Phoenix as an example of a team that is beating a lot of good teams, has a winning record and what looks on paper like a team with a bunch of stiffs. My eyes are seeing a totally different Raptor team than they were pre-Gay. They move the ball.. everybody seems to be engaged both offensively and defensively. So this level of play could in theory be sustained.

    I do think Lowry is going to be moved though. Don't think he's the guy they would want to keep in the long term and the longer they wait the harder it will be to get a good asset. For every day that passes we miss out on a prospect or a first round pick.. I'd hate to get a 2nd round pick for him a la Barbosa. And once Lowry moves that's when I think the losses will pile up again. But I don't think that happens until he is moved.

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    • #17
      Craig wrote: View Post
      a) players get it. They know why the tank is on, they know who is there.
      b) non-tankers got their wish, Toronto filled your little weasel hearts with instant joy with a little run that took them out of the running for a great puck and a chance to be real in the future.

      No Wiggans
      No Embiid
      No Parker, Smart or Randle.


      Just a High pick and a .22345% chance at it being a guy that actually stays in the league for 3 years.


      Yeeeeeehaw.


      Now you have to play the "boy, i really hope sombody comes" game.

      Comes here

      to canada

      with the taxes and snow and metric system


      Good luck with that my "purist" friends. One day you will learn that us "tankers" arent so off the mark

      This season is ruined.
      The next 5 years, ruined



      You're funny.
      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

      Comment


      • #18
        KeonClark wrote: View Post



        You're funny.
        think he's laughing right now?

        don't bet on it son

        Comment


        • #19
          Craig wrote: View Post
          think he's laughing right now?

          don't bet on it son
          It's 12:43 in Toronto, he's probably having lunch.

          He might be laughing though, it is Christmas eve.

          I highly doubt he's moping around at the fact we beat OKC at home. What a terrible disgusting problem to have, players on your roster that are showing you some hope. Just awful..
          9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

          Comment


          • #20
            what is a superstar talent?

            You ever watch a game and suddenly a player...say Steph Curry has got the ball...he's down 2....11 seconds left no shot clock...he darts right gets his defender moving then pulls back out to the 3pt line and fires...and as a fan of the opposing team your heart sinks a little because you knew the second it left his hand your night was ruined?

            You ever see Kobe forget he has a team in the last five minutes and then proceed to crush your dreams one dagger at a time? Until you simply have no heart left.

            DeRozan hit a game winner against Orlando once...
            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

            Comment


            • #21
              What a game winner it was too

              Comment


              • #22
                Craig wrote: View Post
                a) players get it. They know why the tank is on, they know who is there.
                b) non-tankers got their wish, Toronto filled your little weasel hearts with instant joy with a little run that took them out of the running for a great puck and a chance to be real in the future.

                No Wiggans
                No Embiid
                No Parker, Smart or Randle.


                Just a High pick and a .22345% chance at it being a guy that actually stays in the league for 3 years.


                Yeeeeeehaw.


                Now you have to play the "boy, i really hope sombody comes" game.

                Comes here

                to canada

                with the taxes and snow and metric system


                Good luck with that my "purist" friends. One day you will learn that us "tankers" arent so off the mark

                This season is ruined.
                The next 5 years, ruined
                A little over the top Craig. We can still finish last in the Atlantic and get a high draft pick. One trade for picks and scrubs will get us there. Don't get so discouraged.

                Comment


                • #23
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  Can you please read some past threads about "tanking" to get off your high-horse about part-A. Nobody has ever wanted what you suggest, so stop throwing that out as what "pro-tankers" actually want. Nobody on here supports a strategy of putting all our eggs in one basket, such as the Raptors' own 2014 1st round pick.

                  "Pro-tankers" want "C", which is a much better team with a much higher ceiling, built properly, for sustainable success as perennial contenders. Rebuilding this season, leading into the loaded 2014 draft is just the start of an ongoing team-building process, not the final solution.
                  True. But it is dependant on drafting a stud and continued internal development. If the pick bombs that significantly impairs the process.

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                  • #24
                    Some of you are just clowns.

                    No mans land doesn't mean 2nd round, it doesn't mean 7-11 seed, it doesn't mean no top draft pick.

                    It means your team is in neither a contender nor a bottom feeder AND (this is the important part, pay attention) you have peaked/have no way of improving your team.

                    Ujiri has already ENSURED that we will not be in no mans land because the second sentence is false. We have tons of cap flexibility moving forwards, all our draft picks and then some, and young players.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Is it possible that the whole concept of 'mediocrity treadmill' is vastly overblown, and that it is really just a natural step towards success?

                      This article implies that it's actually a good thing to get to mediocrity....


                      http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/26/wh...of-mediocrity/

                      Why teams should try and get on the treadmill of mediocrity
                      March 26, 2012 | Filed under: Basketball Stories
                      In 2010 the Portland Trail Blazers let General Manager Kevin Pritchard go. Doing so would imply they did not believe in his management techniques. Yet oddly, they seem to be following some of his points that he made after leaving the Blazers organization. At Sloan in 2011 Pritchard added a term to the lexicon of basketball management — “The treadmill of mediocrity”

                      The basic concept is a team that is not a contender needs to tank to become a contender. The worst thing to be is a perennial playoff team that isn’t a contender. Or so the conventional wisdom goes. In fact, when Pritchard provided this term Mark Cuban agreed quickly. So did Michael Jordan, who proceeded to dismantle the only playoff team in Bobcats history (we assume in the hopes of making it a contender). The resulting team is one of the worst teams in history, with no signs of contending in site.

                      The team that fired Pritchard, because they didn’t like his views, have latched on to this idea. However, Dave Berri decided to tackle this problem in his most recent Freakonomics post: You Don’t Need to be Bad to be Good in the NBA

                      Let’s say a team wants to be a contender in the NBA. What type of team would they want the season before? The conventional wisdom might state they’d want to be a bad team so they could have more flexibility and better draft picks. Surely, this would be a better option than simply being mediocre. But what did the data say? Dave looked back over the last 150 “contenders” (55+ win teams) and here are their best options in order:

                      Already be a contender
                      Be a good team (playoff caliber team)
                      Be an ok team.


                      The best option for being a great team is overwhelming to be already a great team! Being on the cusp of breaking out is just slightly better than being in the treadmill of mediocrity. However, once a team gets more than a season out being on a good team is the best option for improvement in the future (outside of already being a great team.) By the time we get four years out we see being on an OK team is about as good for a team’s fortunes as being a 50-54 win team. However, all of these options are much better than being on bad (20-29 win) teams to terrible (< 20 win) teams.

                      A team that tanks to get a good draft prospect is simply not in good shape. There’s many reasons for this. The odds a rookie will be great are low. Bad teams often have multiple problems to fix. Frankly, it’s a much better scenario to have a few good players on a team lacking depth.

                      It’s odd that the Blazers decided to fire Pritchard and are choosing to follow his advice. In fact Dave sums it up best:

                      But if you are close – like the Blazers were – your best bet is to find one or two more players that will get you into the promise land. Based on the data, giving away one of your most productive players for the hope of something better is simply not a very good strategy. And given what we see from the history of “excellent” teams, the Blazers – if they are reduced to a team that is not good enough to win 40 games in 2012-13 – are now that much further from finding excellence (and making Henry Abbott happy).

                      So the next time your team makes the playoffs and you hear someone say that next season they need to tank if they ever want to really compete? Well, if you really want to compete, you had better hope your front office doesn’t take this advice.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I'm so sick of these tank vs anti tank debates, just shut up and let ujiri handle things. Stop overreacting to every win or loss. This place is almost as bad as realgm, where half of them are calling for Masai to be fired

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I don't want to be a perennial playoff team that doesn't win anything. that's more frustrating. the point is to win championships. and in the nba you need superstar talent to do so. none of our current players are superstars and never will be.
                          MU needs to find a way to draft/trade/sign superstars. that's the only way unfortunately

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            golden wrote: View Post
                            Is it possible that the whole concept of 'mediocrity treadmill' is vastly overblown, and that it is really just a natural step towards success?

                            This article implies that it's actually a good thing to get to mediocrity....


                            http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/26/wh...of-mediocrity/
                            Wages of Wins is a joke. Their entire goal is to find some obscure trend in the data (without any real statistical significance) that backs up some controversial statement.
                            Last edited by KHD; Tue Dec 24, 2013, 02:23 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Evia99 wrote: View Post
                              I don't want to be a perennial playoff team that doesn't win anything. that's more frustrating. the point is to win championships. and in the nba you need superstar talent to do so. none of our current players are superstars and never will be.
                              MU needs to find a way to draft/trade/sign superstars. that's the only way unfortunately
                              Atlanta is a perfect example of perennial playoff team that doesn't do anything. That can be defined as treadmill as well.
                              Twitter - @thekid_it

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                thead wrote: View Post
                                what is a superstar talent?

                                You ever watch a game and suddenly a player...say Steph Curry has got the ball...he's down 2....11 seconds left no shot clock...he darts right gets his defender moving then pulls back out to the 3pt line and fires...and as a fan of the opposing team your heart sinks a little because you knew the second it left his hand your night was ruined?

                                You ever see Kobe forget he has a team in the last five minutes and then proceed to crush your dreams one dagger at a time? Until you simply have no heart left.

                                DeRozan hit a game winner against Orlando once...
                                These guys do it in the playoffs too. There's a big difference between winning Game 7 and hitting a shot against Orlando (an awful team to begin with).
                                Twitter - @thekid_it

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