Ross vs. Derozan: who is better off the dribble

[Shrub]

DeRozan's dribble was real rubbish for awhile, so I wouldn't be surprised if Ross exceeds him off the dribble at some point.
But right now Ross doesn't even have a Plan B when trying to beat the defender fails.
Which it almost always does.
He just stops.

So...this is a no contest.

[mcHAPPY]

DeRozan's dribble was real rubbish for awhile, so I wouldn't be surprised if Ross exceeds him off the dribble at some point.
But right now Ross doesn't even have a Plan B when trying to beat the defender fails.
Which it almost always does.
He just stops.

So...this is a no contest.

Catch and shoot and focus on his athleticism to take straight line drives.

For Ross to reach his full potential the Raps are going to have to bring Ina coach who operates in a system like Miami or San Antonio.

Imagine Ross in San Antonio or Miami for that matter.

Ross will thrive off ball movement

[Eric Akshinthala]

Why is it not advisable to keep both

For financial and/or rebuilding reasons.

Re-building is about acquiring for the future. The only way that can be done is by trading away a player who's in demand. As long as DD occupied that 3 spot in the starting line up, without much off the bench, it made sense to keep him. That's not the case any more. Ross has proven that he can do the job. Maybe not as well as DD (yet), but fairly decently.

For example, if DD and JV gets us K Durant or D Howard, it's a good return. What they'd do is trade two good supporting players for a 'go to' guy. Again, only an example.

[Masai Ujiri]

For financial and/or rebuilding reasons.

Re-building is about acquiring for the future. The only way that can be done is by trading away a player who's in demand. As long as DD occupied that 3 spot in the starting line up, without much off the bench, it made sense to keep him. That's not the case any more. Ross has proven that he can do the job. Maybe not as well as DD (yet), but fairly decently.

For example, if DD and JV gets us K Durant or D Howard, it's a good return. What they'd do is trade two good supporting players for a 'go to' guy. Again, only an example.

Ah ok so one good game by Ross means he can perform at or above DD's level for the foreseeable future.

Makes sense.

[p00ka]

For financial and/or rebuilding reasons.

Re-building is about acquiring for the future. The only way that can be done is by trading away a player who's in demand. As long as DD occupied that 3 spot in the starting line up, without much off the bench, it made sense to keep him. That's not the case any more. Ross has proven that he can do the job. Maybe not as well as DD (yet), but fairly decently.

For example, if DD and JV gets us K Durant or D Howard, it's a good return. What they'd do is trade two good supporting players for a 'go to' guy. Again, only an example.

A barely turned 24 year old isn't part of building for the future? Huh? But, the IMPOSSIBILITY (yeah, always a valuable starting point,,,,, if you were playing fantasy bball with naive kids) of your "example" aside, how is trading an ever improving 24 year old wing, and a VERY promising 21 year old Center, for a 28 year old cry-baby Center building for the future?

PS. "financial reasons"??? both those guys make more than the two guys you want to toss out

[Masai Ujiri]

A barely turned 24 year old isn't part of building for the future? Huh? But, the IMPOSSIBILITY (yeah, always a valuable starting point,,,,, if you were playing fantasy bball with naive kids) of your "example" aside, how is trading an ever improving 24 year old wing, and a VERY promising 21 year old Center, for a 28 year old cry-baby Center building for the future?

PS. "financial reasons"??? both those guys make more than the two guys you want to toss out

While I disagree with his overall point, don't be foolish.

If Houston would actually do Dwight for JV and DeRozan (which would never happen btw), you do that in a second and without hesitation. Dwight is a bonafide superstar, top 5 player, and arguably the 2nd or 3rd best 2-way player in the league (LBJ and George are there with him).

Dwight was BY FAR the best player on the 2009 Orlando Magic team that went to the finals. Jonas and DeRozan will NEVER be that caliber of player.

[p00ka]

While I disagree with his overall point, don't be foolish.

If Houston would actually do Dwight for JV and DeRozan (which would never happen btw), you do that in a second and without hesitation. Dwight is a bonafide superstar, top 5 player, and arguably the 2nd or 3rd best 2-way player in the league (LBJ and George are there with him).

Dwight was BY FAR the best player on the 2009 Orlando Magic team that went to the finals. Jonas and DeRozan will NEVER be that caliber of player.

Though I may not have articulated particularly well, my points weren't about Dwight's current value, but:

1. What's the point of hypothetical examples of what could be done, when it's an impossibility. Hell, why shoot for Dwight? May as well talk to Miami about LBJ for DD and JV. Senseless discussing an "example" of fantasies.
2. If the issue is a) building for the future b) finances,,,,,,,,, how does gutting the team of 2 promising young guys, to have 1 much older (building future???) guy, already at his peak, with back issues, whose only skill is athleticism, and attitude issues,,, and making more $$$, fit either of those desired results?

[Eric Akshinthala]

Ah ok so one good game by Ross means he can perform at or above DD's level for the foreseeable future.

No need for sarcasm my friend. It doesn't hurt to be respectful. In fact it can hurt to disrespectful.

What I've said is how I feel. You don't have to feel the same way. It's just a matter of respectfully disagreeing.

[Superjudge]

You're hurt Eric's feeling.

Aplogize dammit.

[Masai Ujiri]

No need for sarcasm my friend. It doesn't hurt to be respectful. In fact it can hurt to disrespectful.

What I've said is how I feel. You don't have to feel the same way. It's just a matter of respectfully disagreeing.

Lmfao, cry me a river.

[Eric Akshinthala]

A barely turned 24 year old isn't part of building for the future? Huh? But, the IMPOSSIBILITY (yeah, always a valuable starting point,,,,, if you were playing fantasy bball with naive kids) of your "example" aside, how is trading an ever improving 24 year old wing, and a VERY promising 21 year old Center, for a 28 year old cry-baby Center building for the future?

PS. "financial reasons"??? both those guys make more than the two guys you want to toss out

I said financial or rebuilding reasons. The players mentioned in my example would be the main pieces of the trade. If such a trade were to take place, of course Raps would include another contract or two to make salaries work. Such a trade would be part of a 'quick rebuild plan', IF being the key word.

More importantly it's important to remember that we all have our own opinions. IYO such a trade should not take place, IMO it could.

[Eric Akshinthala]

Lmfao, cry me a river.

Still no change but I believe there's hope.

[p00ka]

I said financial or rebuilding reasons. The players mentioned in my example would be the main pieces of the trade. If such a trade were to take place, of course Raps would include another contract or two to make salaries work. Such a trade would be part of a 'quick rebuild plan', IF being the key word.

More importantly it's important to remember that we all have our own opinions. IYO such a trade should not take place, IMO it could.

Allow me to explain why, imo, it would never happen, nor should it.

Some trades, one GM takes advantage of a situation and clearly wins a trade. A win-lose. Some trades benefit both teams, with pieces moving each way that fit the receiving team better. A win-win.

A DD & JV for Dwight is a lose-lose, considering where each organization is at, and what reasonable goals are for each at this time. Houston didn't sign Howard only to trade for a couple of young guys, especially when one of them plays the same position as Harden. They're totally in win-now mode, so it makes zero sense to them. It also doesn't make sense for the Raps, if you're talking "build for the future", as you are. JV is totally future, and despite some continually weak proclamations that DeMar "is what he is" (does Amir not resonate with anyone who likely said Amir "is what he is" for years), he's barely 24 and future as well. Dwight, on the other hand is 28, has back problems, has character issues, and by the time there's significant future in any draft picks, and Ross, he's 31-32 and on the decline with no skills other than strength and athleticism. By then, I'm betting JV is eating him for lunch, and everybody would be screaming about BC like quick fix moves.

[Eric Akshinthala]

Allow me to explain why, imo, it would never happen, nor should it.

Some trades, one GM takes advantage of a situation and clearly wins a trade. A win-lose. Some trades benefit both teams, with pieces moving each way that fit the receiving team better. A win-win.

A DD & JV for Dwight is a lose-lose, considering where each organization is at, and what reasonable goals are for each at this time. Houston didn't sign Howard only to trade for a couple of young guys, especially when one of them plays the same position as Harden. They're totally in win-now mode, so it makes zero sense to them. It also doesn't make sense for the Raps, if you're talking "build for the future", as you are. JV is totally future, and despite some continually weak proclamations that DeMar "is what he is" (does Amir not resonate with anyone who likely said Amir "is what he is" for years), he's barely 24 and future as well. Dwight, on the other hand is 28, has back problems, has character issues, and by the time there's significant future in any draft picks, and Ross, he's 31-32 and on the decline with no skills other than strength and athleticism. By then, I'm betting JV is eating him for lunch, and everybody would be screaming about BC like quick fix moves.

Why are you breaking down an example? If you had to break it down, why aren't you breaking down the other example? The point I was making which led to me giving a couple of examples was that the GM, if building for the future, should trade Demar either to rebuild quickly or slowly(financial). When I mentioned this in my first post, I did not give any examples. It was in the next post that I gave examples as Nosikes question, which I thought was sincere but wasn't, necessitated it.

Anyway the point is that 'Demar is expendable' IMO. Don't try to break down an example. If I wanted my trade idea to be analysed and accepted, I would've posted it in the Trade forum.

[special1]

The best player on any team is hardly "expendable". Without Demar, Ross would not get as many open looks. If you actually watch the games you would notice that Demar IS the focus of other teams' defence. Demar constantly gets double teamed and even triple team.

LOL

Its not even close right now. Demar is wayyy better off the dribble! How many times have you seen a second defender going at Ross to try to get the ball out of his hands? You really need to watch the games instead of watching the boxscore. How many assists did Ross get last game? The answer is zero.