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  • #46
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He still takes waaaay too many long 2's and some of them are questionable at best, in my opinion.

    DD 2012-13:

    0-8ft 401 attempts .561
    8-16ft 261 attempts .395
    16-24 449 attempts .414
    24+ 120 attempts .283

    Thus far in 2013-14

    0-8ft 133 attempts .594
    8-16ft 106 attempts .396
    16-24 159 attempts .371
    24+ 99 attempts .313

    37.7% of shots in 12-13 were long 2s
    31.9% of shots in 13-14 are long 2s but making at less of a rate (37.1% which is good for 82nd among guards in the NBA).


    I'd love to see him put up a shot chart much like Harden or Stephenson where the 0-8 and 3 attempts are 2-4x 8-16 and 16-24 attempts.


    Don't get me wrong, although many will haha, he has definitely shown improvement in his game.... mainly in creating for others and getting to the foul line. However his rebounding is still average at best, he can't handle a double, his defense is shaky. Yeah, he is putting up more points but he is doing it on nearly 3 extra attempts per game. Unfortunately since Gay left he is being exposed in his efficiency and he has really cooled form 3 after a hot start. He is not a #1 scoring option. Not sure how the Raptors get one either. He's shown he is a great Robin from a scoring perspective.

    Anyways, let the typical "Matt52 hates DeRozan" begin. Criticism, especially when founded, is not hate, gents.
    I don't disagree, it's the black hole idea that some of the media guys are still labelling him with that bugs me. He doesn't deserve that, I think we can all agree with that. But I would also like to see him shoot more along the lines of what the analytics suggests, more three's and shots at the rim. I don't mind an occasional long two coming off a screen or something like that, but off the bounce is a no-no for me. Leave those for Wade and Kobe. Off the bounce should be limited to foul line type distance pull-ups or closer IMO, or post ups if that counts as off the bounce.

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    • #47
      JawsGT wrote: View Post
      I don't disagree, it's the black hole idea that some of the media guys are still labelling him with that bugs me. He doesn't deserve that, I think we can all agree with that. But I would also like to see him shoot more along the lines of what the analytics suggests, more three's and shots at the rim. I don't mind an occasional long two coming off a screen or something like that, but off the bounce is a no-no for me. Leave those for Wade and Kobe. Off the bounce should be limited to foul line type distance pull-ups or closer IMO, or post ups if that counts as off the bounce.
      Again, derozan has to take those shots because he's the number one scoring option on the team. If he wasn't he could focus more on corner threes and only shooting when he can get all the way to the basket.

      Near the end of a shot clock, if the raptors offence breaks down, it's derozan who has to create something out of nothing. Very few players can actually consistently score in these situations, and most of the ones that can are superstars. That's why we need a legit superstar here so HE can take those shots and DeMar can focus on what he does best which is being a complementary scorer within the offence.

      If that happened you might see more games like the one the other night where dd scored 25 on 13 shots.

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      • #48
        iblastoff wrote: View Post
        I don't know why that would be any different than the way he was 2nd/3rd option in Memphis though. Unless stats are finally starting to matter for him and he was tired of the entire league making a joke of his 18 points per 1000000 shots run.
        In Memphis he actually wasn't deferring and was still the first option on offense. Lionel hollins and any of gay's teammates will tell you the same.

        Btw Marc gasol is not in the same stratosphere as cousins as a scorer.

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        • #49
          The most interesting thing about where we are at right now is that you can easily justify trading DD and Lowry because of their trade value today. At the same time, I am a HUGE believe in point differential being an indication of how your team is playing (not THE indication, but AN indication). You can really see the diamonds in the rough. Strength of schedule also tells a huge story.

          At this point, with Horford's injury, 3rd in the conference is not out of the question. Is it that unbelievable to think that we are actually the 3rd best team in the East? Playing a team like Washington in the first round of the playoffs....i don't know...as a fan, it's pretty tempting

          Ultimately, I think that Masai's plan of asking teams for basically LOPSIDED trades only is a great one (like what he did with the knicks). If they take them we win big. If they don't, our team is still better.

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          • #50
            Nosike wrote: View Post
            You have never provided evidence. You have no damn clue what you're talking about.
            In other threads I have had disagreements with you where I have used statistical data and broke down his skillset/play styleas to why he isn't that good of a player. If you can't remember I'm not going to even bother trying again because you obviously don't want to listen to logic when talking about DD

            Instead, you are a repeated homer who keeps saying that DD has 'drastically improved' and stuff while providing absolutely no statistical or skillset/play style evidence.

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            • #51
              OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
              In other threads I have had disagreements with you where I have used statistical data and broke down his skillset/play styleas to why he isn't that good of a player. If you can't remember I'm not going to even bother trying again because you obviously don't want to listen to logic when talking about DD

              Instead, you are a repeated homer who keeps saying that DD has 'drastically improved' and stuff while providing absolutely no statistical or skillset/play style evidence.
              Are you actually saying that DD has not improved over the years? Also, was he not a better player (more efficient player) with Rudy in the line up? DD has improved this season it doesn't take much to see that. DeMar shouldn't be #1 option nor is he paid to be. When he is forced to be the go to guy and play large minutes he is not as effective. He's a building block, not the answer.

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              • #52
                I'm not saying he's untouchable, but he carries more value than most are giving him credit for.

                Comment


                • #53
                  saints91 wrote: View Post
                  Are you actually saying that DD has not improved over the years? Also, was he not a better player (more efficient player) with Rudy in the line up? DD has improved this season it doesn't take much to see that. DeMar shouldn't be #1 option nor is he paid to be. When he is forced to be the go to guy and play large minutes he is not as effective. He's a building block, not the answer.
                  Apparently Gordan Hayward is more athletic than Demar lol

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                  • #54
                    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                    Apparently Gordan Hayward is more athletic than Demar lol
                    That's not crazy to say actually. Hayward is an incredibly athletic dude.

                    Hayward is also super soft though. Just about anyone can push him around out on the court.

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                    • #55
                      saints91 wrote: View Post
                      Are you actually saying that DD has not improved over the years? Also, was he not a better player (more efficient player) with Rudy in the line up? DD has improved this season it doesn't take much to see that. DeMar shouldn't be #1 option nor is he paid to be. When he is forced to be the go to guy and play large minutes he is not as effective. He's a building block, not the answer.
                      Yes, DD was more efficient with Gay in the lineup...but not drastically so (ie he wasn't even efficient as a #2 option). He needs plays specifically run for himself in order to score since he cannot create for himself. Even with Gay here he needed those set plays to score. That means his skill set is that of a number 1 option, seeing as the offense needs to be run around him to score. Unfortunately he isn't efficient at it. Unfortunately he can't use those plays to create for others. Unfortunately it is time to move on from him.

                      BUT, if you think DD is a part of the futureIf and not as a number 1 option, then we need to look at his ability to play off the ball effectively when he doesn't have a play run for him. Unfortunately he has proven awful at it,which is why we see him completely disappear from the game when the plays aren't run for him. As a #2 or #3 he also needs to be a good catch and shoot player from 3 (which he isn't) or he needs to be able to create for himself or others (which he doesn't). I wish the best for him, but I don't see him as being a major part/starter of a conference finals team (which imo is under the definition of competing for a championship)

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                      • #56
                        saints91 wrote: View Post
                        I'm not saying he's untouchable, but he carries more value than most are giving him credit for.
                        a bad contract+prospect and a late lotto/heavily protected future first I thimk is wonderful value for him. Anything more than that would be crazy, anything less than two of those things above would be a firesale move

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                        • #57
                          whats amazing is that Amir is getting 14 more touches since Gay is gone. thank god for that trade

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                          • #58
                            Nosike wrote: View Post
                            Again, derozan has to take those shots because he's the number one scoring option on the team. If he wasn't he could focus more on corner threes and only shooting when he can get all the way to the basket.

                            Near the end of a shot clock, if the raptors offence breaks down, it's derozan who has to create something out of nothing. Very few players can actually consistently score in these situations, and most of the ones that can are superstars. That's why we need a legit superstar here so HE can take those shots and DeMar can focus on what he does best which is being a complementary scorer within the offence.

                            If that happened you might see more games like the one the other night where dd scored 25 on 13 shots.
                            Looking at roster spots which position do you think the elite player should occupy though? They aren't replacing JV, Amir is good value for what he gives you, but an upgrade isn't out of the question. Elite pG's are not easy to find or trade for and for the most part they are either scores or distributors unless truly elite.

                            That leaves the SG and SF spot. Ross is too small to play SF against good teams and he is the better 3 point shooter already. In time he will be the better defender as well. No reason why his mid range game can't improve to DeMar's level, so if you slide Ross into the SG spot and go looking for an eliteish SF DD is the odd man out. If you continue to play the smaller Ross at at SF, he is still the better shooter so you need to find an elite SG and once again DD is the odd man out. Every angle I look at this roster it looks like DD occupies the position where we need to upgrade.

                            Nets are gonna have to blow if up sooner or later. Would DD, and parts for Joe Johnson make sense?

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                            • #59
                              Mediumcore wrote: View Post

                              Nets are gonna have to blow if up sooner or later. Would DD, and parts for Joe Johnson make sense?
                              Not a fan of giving Joe Johnson 48 million over the next 2 seasons. I'm sure the Nets would do DeRozan and spare parts for Johnson in a heartbeat, but I hope Ujiri doesn't even consider it.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                                Not a fan of giving Joe Johnson 48 million over the next 2 seasons. I'm sure the Nets would do DeRozan and spare parts for Johnson in a heartbeat, but I hope Ujiri doesn't even consider it.
                                Yeah, I'm not a fan either...just too inconsistent as a number one scoring option, but I was thinking on a team like Toronto where the team comes first, Joe may not have the pressure being the go to guy every second he is on the floor.

                                Nobody is going to hand Toronto an elite player that is worth his contract, so we at some point may need to take a chance/ over pay.

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