Eddie Johnson of Hoopshype Ranks top 5 SGs

[Superjudge]

Not that I agree with his list, but what's the difference between "BEST" and "EFFICIENT"? The latter wins games. What does the former do, score a lot of points?

well the team with the former is 10 and effin 2 right now with him as a MAJOR focal point.

so you know.

put that in your pipe and smoke it.



Kinda tired of people feeling like they always need to hate their own guys. Give DD his respect, he's working damn hard and the results are showing.


Theres more to the game than just hotting shots. Derozan is pretty damn rounded.

[stooley]

well the team with the former is 10 and effin 2 right now with him as a MAJOR focal point.

so you know.

put that in your pipe and smoke it.



Kinda tired of people feeling like they always need to hate their own guys. Give DD his respect, he's working damn hard and the results are showing.


Theres more to the game than just hotting shots. Derozan is pretty damn rounded.

I get your point but that's not really a great argument. Maybe they're good despite DD's shortcomings. I'm not saying that, just pointing out that the team's record is hardly indicative of every player's performance on that team.

[draftedraptor]

Vasquez was more efficient than Lowry, Lin, Calderon and Rubio last year. think on that.

[stooley]

It's really hard to objectively quantify things like "significant defensive attention" and "initiators of offense". I don't care to make those types of remarks anymore because in my view it boils down to apologizing for inefficient, overrated players. There are many players who took a lot of shots and shot a better-than-average percentage, and many more who failed to do so. It's when you look for reasons that I think a lot of people will go wrong.

I don't know why, but the guys I mentioned shoot the ball double-digit times per game and shoot it well. They all have a positive ORTG : DRTG ratio and lots of win shares. Awfully hard to do in the NBA.

I agree with some points. I'm a big fan of baseball and really enjoy playing fantasy baseball because the game really is a series of 1v1 interactions. You can assemble a team and one players results will have a minimal impact on another players stats (note I said minimal not none, everything is relative).

The issue with basketball is that every play and decision flows into the next and affects what happens down the line.

You often hear people saying how certain players just "make the players around them better". This is not a scientific analogy, but being placed among a lot of those types of players may result in better stats than playing with a bunch of ball-hogging, chucking scrubs. That's just one example of how its really hard to be completely objective when comparing players in different situations.

Figuring out how a certain player would perform on a different team is a little like figuring out how college players will perform at the pro level. There's a lot less variation for pro players just shifting laterally among teams, so of course its easier to do, but there are similarities to be drawn.

While stats can be a great tool, it's also important to look at skill sets that a certain player possesses.

I'm not attacking your point, because often, skills are used as excuses for chucking. I'm just trying to demonstrate that stats do have some shortcomings, and it's difficult to use them as a be all end all point of discussion.

[Superjudge]

I get your point but that's not really a great argument. Maybe they're good despite DD's shortcomings. I'm not saying that, just pointing out that the team's record is hardly indicative of every player's performance on that team.

I dont disagree with you however many people will tell you, mostly people who have played, that there are intangibles that some people bring that in many ways elevate them above other players. I hear nothing but good things about DD. You hear it from players, teammates, coaches, former coaches, scouts, other GM's etc. People like his game.

He misses shots, sure, I'll give ya that. But he shares the rock, finds open guys, runs the floor, in NEVER hurt, rebounds, and somehow always over looked, draws a shit load of fouls on opposing bigs.... thi sis not something you can ignore when you look at the success of your bigs. When he is drawing 7-8 fouls in the paint, thats a lot of defensive, and offensive pressure off his bigs. There are HUGE factors in a game, and I like to count them in my discussion. dude gets to the the line.

Toronto is only now playing well, and I am basing my opinions oh what is happening now. Right now the guy is performing at a very high level. And with that comes the positive press.

We can all say one guy is better than another, but in pro sports, to a pretty high degree, you're only as good as your current abilities... and right now, DD is arguably having as much success as anyone in the NBA at his position.

[stooley]

I dont disagree with you however many people will tell you, mostly people who have played, that there are intangibles that some people bring that in many ways elevate them above other players. I hear nothing but good things about DD. You hear it from players, teammates, coaches, former coaches, scouts, other GM's etc. People like his game.

He misses shots, sure, I'll give ya that. But he shares the rock, finds open guys, runs the floor, in NEVER hurt, rebounds, and somehow always over looked, draws a shit load of fouls on opposing bigs.... thi sis not something you can ignore when you look at the success of your bigs. When he is drawing 7-8 fouls in the paint, thats a lot of defensive, and offensive pressure off his bigs. There are HUGE factors in a game, and I like to count them in my discussion. dude gets to the the line.

Toronto is only now playing well, and I am basing my opinions oh what is happening now. Right now the guy is performing at a very high level. And with that comes the positive press.

We can all say one guy is better than another, but in pro sports, to a pretty high degree, you're only as good as your current abilities... and right now, DD is arguably having as much success as anyone in the NBA at his position.

Yeah, I agree to some extent, see what I posted above re:stats.

[Superjudge]

read it, liked it.

DD is, to me, a very good player, but I might be wrong too. Who knows, he may go backwards a little. It just seems, that at the very young age of 24, he continues to always get better. And now, he's playing really damn good. Perhaps the argument against him being in that top 5, is consistency. so, he keeps this up for another 10-15 games..... well then its an easy end to the argument.

[stooley]

So what matters is your subjective beliefs, and if the statistics don't tell you what you want to hear, there must be something wrong with them.

No, lol. did you read what i posted?

[ebrian]

Flavours of the month and total points factor in highly.

SG must be at an all time historic low for quality of players.... or is that just me?

I completely agree. I looked up and down at player season comparisons, even the last two seasons.. it's been paltry. I have to admit, when I tried to come up with a top 10 of my own, I was hoping to avoid putting DeRozan in there but unfortunately he cracks my top 10. I guess the reason we don't think of him as a top guy is because of having been spoiled the past few decades of truly high quality 2-guards. He's light years away from those types of guys.. but today, in 2014.. he's a top 10. How sad for the NBA.

Here's my top 10 in no particular order: Wade, Harden, Kobe, Ginobili, Iguodala, Stephenson, Afflalo, Matthews, DeRozan, Thompson.

[Superjudge]

So what matters is your subjective beliefs, and if the statistics don't tell you what you want to hear, there must be something wrong with them.

well yes, because I know what the fuck im talking about yo!

[Superjudge]

I completely agree. I looked up and down at player season comparisons, even the last two seasons.. it's been paltry. I have to admit, when I tried to come up with a top 10 of my own, I was hoping to avoid putting DeRozan in there but unfortunately he cracks my top 10. I guess the reason we don't think of him as a top guy is because of having been spoiled the past few decades of truly high quality 2-guards. He's light years away from those types of guys.. but today, in 2014.. he's a top 10. How sad for the NBA.

Here's my top 10 in no particular order: Wade, Harden, Kobe, Ginobili, Iguodala, Stephenson, Afflalo, Matthews, DeRozan, Thompson.

methinks you suffer what many do, and thats an over abundant amount of respect for the past. We tend to think everyone in the past was just super superior to what we have now. I'm not sure thats the case.

[OldSkoolCool]

If you're going to use DD playing on a good team...please not that DD is the only starter on the team where his ORAT is less than his DRAT. Which is not good for you primary scorer.

I would in order:

1) Kobe
2) Wade
3) Harden
4) Stephenson (I believe he is leading the league in triple doubles)Thompson
5) Thompson
6) Genobli
7) Crawford
8) Ellis
9) Afflalo
10) DD
11) Beal

Now, 5-10 are very close IMO, but I placed the other guys ahead of DD because they also do other things more so than DD.

[stooley]

My top 10 for this season:

1. James Harden
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Aaron Afflalo
4. Monta Ellis
5. Lance Stephenson
6. Wesley Matthews
7. Demar Derozan
8. Klay Thompson
9. Ginobili
10. Beal

I think there's a pretty significant drop off after the top 2.

I put Thompson so much lower than most people because he really is only offense, and mostly catch and shoot at that.

Wade offers more than harden, but can't do so every night.

[Superjudge]

If you're going to use DD playing on a good team...please not that DD is the only starter on the team where his ORAT is less than his DRAT. Which is not good for you primary scorer.

I would in order:

1) Kobe WTF???
2) Wade
3) Harden
4) Stephenson (I believe he is leading the league in triple doubles)Thompson
5) Thompson Whats he do but shoot?
6) Genobli Again, rate um on now, you want Ginobli before DD, you're crazy.
7) Crawford incredible.
8) Ellis OMG...are you serious?
9) Afflalo
10) DD
11) Beal

Now, 5-10 are very close IMO, but I placed the other guys ahead of DD because they also do other things more so than DD.

Kobe is almost dead and can't walk. You aren't rating guys on what they did in the past, and so add Manu into this pile. Thompson can shoot, but he doesn't do the other things DD does. Crawford isn't as good as DD and he is a bastard in the room apparently, he's also a black hole. Monta ellis can score, but he doesn't defend, doesn't pass, isn't durable, now liked a whole lot... he's Monta Ellis.

1. stephenson
2. harden
3. wade
4. afflalo
5. Derozan
6. thompson
7. Manu

after that I don't care.

[isaacthompson]

If you're going to use DD playing on a good team...please not that DD is the only starter on the team where his ORAT is less than his DRAT. Which is not good for you primary scorer.

I would in order:

1) Kobe
2) Wade
3) Harden
4) Stephenson (I believe he is leading the league in triple doubles)Thompson
5) Thompson
6) Genobli
7) Crawford
8) Ellis
9) Afflalo
10) DD
11) Beal

Now, 5-10 are very close IMO, but I placed the other guys ahead of DD because they also do other things more so than DD.

I definitely would not put Wade over Harden.