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What If We Dealt DeMar And Not Rudy?

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  • #76
    special1 wrote: View Post
    LOL Damn ...

    Dan does the H stand for Hate? Last time I checked we were 15-8 since trading Rudy Gay with Demar being our leading scorer and arguably our best player.

    What exactly is your problem??

    You know what?....don't answer. I'll just dismiss your ridiculous comments as the usual hate i see on this site from time to time. Bitter fans that are pissed that they were proven wrong and continue to talk the same shit from last year and the years before. This player you are clearly hating on will likely be an all star this year. That may not mean a lot to you, but it means a lot to real fans of this team, who actually see the improvement in Demar's game.

    No need to be disrespectful...just continue to eat crow.
    Maybe if you stopped dismissing any opinion that doesn't simply heap praise on DeRozan, you might actually be able to understand the rationale behind those opinions. Pointing out a negative does not equal hate.

    I hope DeRozan and Lowry are both named to the all-star team. I honestly do, for the good of the Raptors franchise and its long-suffering fans.

    However, even an all-star recognition wouldn't blind me to the fact that DeRozan's advanced stats and efficiency numbers still aren't fantastic. Nobody has ever questioned his ability to score, only his ability to consistently do so efficiently. His defense is still average at best, which negates at least some of his scoring.

    Has DeRozan improved this season? Sure, a little bit (though what happened to the much bally-hooed improved 3pt shooting?). Does he still have room to improve? I believe so. Is he more worth his salary than when he first signed his extension? I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't make him infallible.

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    • #77
      special1 wrote: View Post
      LOL Damn ...

      Dan does the H stand for Hate? Last time I checked we were 15-8 since trading Rudy Gay with Demar being our leading scorer and arguably our best player.

      What exactly is your problem??

      You know what?....don't answer. I'll just dismiss your ridiculous comments as the usual hate i see on this site from time to time. Bitter fans that are pissed that they were proven wrong and continue to talk the same shit from last year and the years before. This player you are clearly hating on will likely be an all star this year. That may not mean a lot to you, but it means a lot to real fans of this team, who actually see the improvement in Demar's game.

      No need to be disrespectful...just continue to eat crow.
      Criticism doesn't necessarily need to be referred to as hate.

      Oh, and Lowry is arguably the team's best player. It pains me to say it because I've never been a fan of him since he came into the NBA, but without his resurrection, Toronto wouldn't be where they are at the moment. This team could still compete without DeMar in my opinion. Without Lowry at the moment, we'd be awful. JMO

      Comment


      • #78
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        Maybe if you stopped dismissing any opinion that doesn't simply heap praise on DeRozan, you might actually be able to understand the rationale behind those opinions. Pointing out a negative does not equal hate.

        I hope DeRozan and Lowry are both named to the all-star team. I honestly do, for the good of the Raptors franchise and its long-suffering fans.

        However, even an all-star recognition wouldn't blind me to the fact that DeRozan's advanced stats and efficiency numbers still aren't fantastic. Nobody has ever questioned his ability to score, only his ability to consistently do so efficiently. His defense is still average at best, which negates at least some of his scoring.

        Has DeRozan improved this season? Sure, a little bit (though what happened to the much bally-hooed improved 3pt shooting?). Does he still have room to improve? I believe so. Is he more worth his salary than when he first signed his extension? I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't make him infallible.
        LOL CalgaryRapsFan..... you know you wanted to trade Demar. We know where you stand. You wanted to trade him for a draft pick. I'm not shocked that you would agree with DanH. You guys have the same views in my opinion. Eat crow as well.

        Comment


        • #79
          special1 wrote: View Post
          LOL CalgaryRapsFan..... you know you wanted to trade Demar. We know where you stand. You wanted to trade him for a draft pick. I'm not shocked that you would agree with DanH. You guys have the same views in my opinion. Eat crow as well.
          Yes, in the offseason I was hoping the Raps could trade DeRozan to Utah for Millsap (via S&T), in a retooling effort (ie: not rebuilding or tanking), to better distribute the team salary and balance the lineup (those saying Gay & DeRozan couldn't co-exist were proven right). With hindsight, I still think that would've been a great trade, allowing Amir to become the 3rd big and Ross to start at SG sooner.

          I still support trading DeRozan for a top-5-10 draft pick at the draft, when MU can be guaranteed the value of the return. I prefer Ross as the starting SG going forward and I don't think DeRozan is a legit starting SF.

          The bottom line is that DeRozan is still primarily a one-dimensional player, who is largely inconsistently efficient at that dimension. As I said above, there is no doubt that he has shown minor improvements, but he still hasn't resolved his key problem (or his secondary problem, being average-at-best defense).

          I'm not sure why I need to eat crow, but I'd prefer it well done if you're firing it up on the bbq.
          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Jan 24, 2014, 06:00 PM.

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          • #80
            Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
            Criticism doesn't necessarily need to be referred to as hate.

            Oh, and Lowry is arguably the team's best player. It pains me to say it because I've never been a fan of him since he came into the NBA, but without his resurrection, Toronto wouldn't be where they are at the moment. This team could still compete without DeMar in my opinion. Without Lowry at the moment, we'd be awful. JMO
            Thanks for your opinion. I vehemently disagree with you. I think Demar is our best player, but I won't argue if you think he's a close second.

            Comment


            • #81
              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              Yes, in the offseason I was hoping the Raps could trade DeRozan to Utah for Millsap (via S&T), in a retooling effort (ie: not rebuilding or tanking), to better distribute the team salary and balance the lineup (those saying Gay & DeRozan couldn't co-exist were proven right). With hindsight, I still think that would've been a great trade, allowing Amir to become the 3rd big and Ross to start at SG sooner.

              I still support trading DeRozan for a top-5-10 draft pick at the draft, when MU can be guaranteed the value of the return. I prefer Ross as the starting SG going forward and I don't think DeRozan is a legit starting SF.

              The bottom line is that DeRozan is still primarily a one-dimensional player, who is largely inconsistently inefficient at that dimension. As I said above, there is no doubt that he has shown minor improvements, but he still hasn't resolved his key problem (or his secondary problem, being average-at-best defense).

              I'm not sure why I need to eat crow, but I'd prefer it well done if you're firing it up on the bbq.
              I'll gladly eat crow when he is no longer an inefficient volume scorer.

              As long as he is rocking 21 points per game on 18 shots the #1 and most important criticism and crow remains.

              Comment


              • #82
                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                Yes, in the offseason I was hoping the Raps could trade DeRozan to Utah for Millsap (via S&T), in a retooling effort (ie: not rebuilding or tanking), to better distribute the team salary and balance the lineup (those saying Gay & DeRozan couldn't co-exist were proven right).

                I still support trading DeRozan for a top-5-10 draft pick at the draft, when MU can be guaranteed the value of the return. I prefer Ross as the starting SG going forward and I don't think DeRozan is a legit starting SF.

                The bottom line is that DeRozan is still primarily a one-dimensional player, who is largely inconsistently inefficient at that dimension. As I said above, there is no doubt that he has shown minor improvements, but he still hasn't resolved his key problem (or his secondary problem, being average-at-best defense).
                I'm not sure why I need to eat crow, but I'd prefer it well done if you're firing it up on the bbq.
                LOL You just never give up.....even your tanking avatar is still here! I don't know why you think your opinion of Demar is important to me. Clearly, we're not even watching the same games and your definition of talent is different than mines. You support trading our 24 year soon to be all-star because he didn't develop fast enough for you. Boy are we lucky your just a "super" mod and have no actual say in anything.

                You don't know why you need to eat crow?? HAhahaha.....good one. From re-tooling, to rebuilding to straight tanking.....you always find a way to walk that tight rope. See you at the kitchen table in a week....i'm serving and you'll eat whats on your plate young man!

                Comment


                • #83
                  special1 wrote: View Post
                  LOL You just never give up.....even your tanking avatar is still here! I don't know why you think your opinion of Demar is important to me. Clearly, we're not even watching the same games and your definition of talent is different than mines. You support trading our 24 year soon to be all-star because he didn't develop fast enough for you. Boy are we lucky your just a "super" mod and have no actual say in anything.

                  You don't know why you need to eat crow?? HAhahaha.....good one. From re-tooling, to rebuilding to straight tanking.....you always find a way to walk that tight rope. See you at the kitchen table in a week....i'm serving and you'll eat whats on your plate young man!
                  Why are you incapable of discussing/debating an issue without getting so emotional, personal and insulting?

                  You took shots at me, but didn't really do anything to address my opinion, which countless advanced stats support.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    I'll gladly eat crow when he is no longer an inefficient volume scorer.

                    As long as he is rocking 21 points per game on 18 shots the #1 and most important criticism and crow remains.
                    Keep moving the goal posts lol You'll eat crow if he makes the all-star game.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      Yes, in the offseason I was hoping the Raps could trade DeRozan to Utah for Millsap (via S&T), in a retooling effort (ie: not rebuilding or tanking), to better distribute the team salary and balance the lineup (those saying Gay & DeRozan couldn't co-exist were proven right). With hindsight, I still think that would've been a great trade, allowing Amir to become the 3rd big and Ross to start at SG sooner.

                      I still support trading DeRozan for a top-5-10 draft pick at the draft, when MU can be guaranteed the value of the return. I prefer Ross as the starting SG going forward and I don't think DeRozan is a legit starting SF.

                      The bottom line is that DeRozan is still primarily a one-dimensional player, who is largely inconsistently efficient at that dimension. As I said above, there is no doubt that he has shown minor improvements, but he still hasn't resolved his key problem (or his secondary problem, being average-at-best defense).

                      I'm not sure why I need to eat crow, but I'd prefer it well done if you're firing it up on the bbq.
                      Dude, you keep bringing up Millsap. You gotta stop. You're making it sound like it was a legit option. It very likely never was. Utah was clearly tanking and avoiding adding any salary they didn't have to. They would have no reason to make that sign and trade, otherwise they would've probably traded Millsap in the season for assets when he was expiring, rather than let his salary clear off the books...but they clearly prioritized the latter.

                      You're also making it sound like it would obviously have made us better....Well, if we traded DeMar for Millsap, we'd probably still have to trade Gay (who Casey would still be making our #1 option and who proved he's even more miscast in that role than DeMar), and have one of the weakest wing rotations in the league, making it hard for ours bigs to operate as Ds wouldn't have to pay much of any attention to our perimeter players. We'd arguably be even easier to gameplan for. I mean, Memphis has finally and rightly been struggling with their somewhat weak wing rotation because teams can focus on Gasol and Randolph, who are superior talents at the moment than Jonas and Millsap would be as a pairing. So how would TO fair? Hard to say it would've necessarily created a better situation.

                      Anyway, I don't mind that you think it would've been a good idea. It could've been (just like it could not have been). Just getting sick of you bringing it up in a lot of DeMar discussions over and over again. I would've also loved to trade Kyle for about 10 other PGs, or Gay for a better package than what we got....But these aren't even hindsight discussions. Hindsight is usually based on possibilities that were legitimately available, not fantasies.
                      Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Jan 24, 2014, 06:17 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Couple things to keep in mind when asking this "what if" trade:

                        1. DeMar's trade value was/is at the highest level possible right now; likely would have received better assets i.e. McLemore/Thornton/Thompson > Hayes/Salmons

                        2. Contractually, less money, so yeah.

                        3. I think the Raptors would still struggle, because unlike DeRozan, Gay is an awful passer, and has serious tunnel vision. There's nothing wrong with his eyes, it's just he doesn't choose to see.

                        Easy enough answer to me, Toronto would not be 4th with Rudy as the number 1.
                        Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                          Why are you incapable of discussing/debating an issue without getting so emotional, personal and insulting?

                          You took shots at me, but didn't really do anything to address my opinion, which countless advanced stats support.
                          Countless advanced stats.....sorry i must've missed the links.

                          Honestly, relax, I just took a few jabs at you. I'm actually having a good laugh as I write this. I apologize if you actually take those words as insulting, because i don't really mean to insult you. I just have a fairly good memory and remember the things you wrote MANY times.....we'ren't you expecting this?

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            Dude, you keep bringing up Millsap. You gotta stop. You're making it sound like it was a legit option. It very likely never was. Utah was clearly tanking and avoiding adding any salary they didn't have to. They would have no reason to make that sign and trade, otherwise they would've probably traded Millsap in the season for assets when he was expiring, rather than let his salary clear off the books...but they clearly prioritized the latter.

                            You're also making it sound like it would obviously have made us better....Well, if we traded DeMar for Millsap, we'd probably still have to trade Gay (who Casey would still be making our #1 option and who proved he's even more miscast in that role than DeMar), and have one of the weakest wing rotations in the league, making it hard for ours bigs to operate as Ds wouldn't have to pay much of any attention to our perimeter players. We'd arguably be even easier to gameplan for. I mean, Memphis has finally and rightly been struggling with their somewhat weak wing rotation because teams can focus on Gasol and Randolph, who are superior talents at the moment than Jonas and Millsap would be as a pairing. So how would TO fair? Hard to say it would've necessarily created a better situation.

                            Anyway, I don't mind that you think it would've been a good idea. It could've been (just like it could not have been). Just getting sick of you bringing it up in a lot over DeMar discussions over and over again. I would've also loved to trade Kyle for about 10 other PGs, or Gay for a better package than what we got....But these aren't even hindsight discussions. Hindsight is usually based on possibilities that were legitimately available, not fantasies.
                            I'll stop bringing it up as soon as other posters stop pointing out an inaccurate agenda of mine, to trade DeRozan for unproven talent or pennies on the dollar, in a quest to prove my "hate" of DeRozan. That was my stated personal desire for DeRozan in the offseason, even though I knew then it was a highly unlikely option (and you're right that we have no idea what would/could have happened after such a move). I don't mind having my past opinions/ideas being called out, but I don't like being called out incorrectly.

                            You're right though, I'll just ignore the reference from now on.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              special1 wrote: View Post
                              Countless advanced stats.....sorry i must've missed the links.

                              Honestly, relax, I just took a few jabs at you. I'm actually having a good laugh as I write this. I apologize if you actually take those words as insulting, because i don't really mean to insult you. I just have a fairly good memory and remember the things you wrote MANY times.....we'ren't you expecting this?
                              Other posters who are far more versed in stats have posted the evidence in multiple threads, so you're right, I didn't post them yet again. My bad.

                              Whether it's against me or any other poster, there's never a reason to make it personal, especially if you're throwing out insults (check the stickied post for forum rules).

                              I did expect it, but until DeRozan proves that he can score efficiently consistently, it's not justified.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                I'll stop bringing it up as soon as other posters stop pointing out an inaccurate agenda of mine, to trade DeRozan for unproven talent or pennies on the dollar, in a quest to prove my "hate" of DeRozan. That was my stated personal desire for DeRozan in the offseason, even though I knew then it was a highly unlikely option (and you're right that we have no idea what would/could have happened after such a move). I don't mind having my past opinions/ideas being called out, but I don't like being called out incorrectly.

                                You're right though, I'll just ignore the reference from now on.
                                Thank you . FWIW, I totally wouldn't mind you speculating on new trade ideas. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if you were talking about Millsap via Atlanta. Just feel like it's time to move on from that specific scenario with Utah that was never even remotely rumoured.

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