Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The * to Masai's proclamation of, "We will not be caught in no man's land."

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    ah, erasing this. Keon cleared some stuff up
    "Bruno?
    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
    He's terrible."

    -Superjudge, 7/23

    Hope you're wrong.

    Comment


    • #32
      KeonClark wrote: View Post
      Of course strapping on the fantasy GM hat is fun. I'm speaking on the overall tone of the posts that go "why hasn't Masai said anything?", "Why hasn't Masai traded anybody", "Why are we in no mans land??"

      Y'know, the posts you see here on daily basis.
      The key point that people seem to forget, is that there's still a lot of time left this year.

      And a lot more years on MU's contract, so until he actually messes something up that isn't part of some kind of long term philosophy, people really shouldn't be too worried, yet.

      Of course, no harm in critiquing or providing one's opinion.
      "Bruno?
      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
      He's terrible."

      -Superjudge, 7/23

      Hope you're wrong.

      Comment


      • #33
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        That deal you outlined - Shumpert & expiring contracts & 2nd round pick - certainly isn't ideal and I'd hope MU turns it down.

        However, if Toronto reaches the trade deadline while sitting in the 6-8 seed (or lower) in the EC and Lowry hasn't made his intentions to re-sign at a reasonable salary perfectly clear, then I would strongly consider that deal (assuming it's the best offer).

        Shumpert would likely still have value around the league as a trade chip, even if Toronto had no use for him (he was apparently in high-demand last season and throughout the offseason). Having an extra 2nd round pick is better than not having one.

        For me, it all comes down to information we don't have access to:
        - does MU want Lowry to be the team's starting PG next season?
        - does Lowry want to re-sign with Toronto?
        - if the first two answers are "yes", will Lowry's salary demands be reasonable to MU?


        If Toronto is sitting in the #3-5 spot in the EC, then suddenly accepting that deal (again, assuming it's the best offer received) isn't as easy to do, as the benefits of making the playoffs with an average-good chance at winning a 1st round series have to be factored into the evaluation.
        I feel exactly the same way.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

        Comment


        • #34
          stooley wrote: View Post
          So, this is a fun exercise. What will a winning season in 2014 contribute to the long term building of a contending franchise?

          I'd say:

          1. Experience winning. I know this is often dismissed, but I think having JV and Ross experience being on a functional team before the tear-down could contribute to their development. Once it's time for the team to step it back up, these guys, who will hopefully be core contributors, will be able to draw on past experience of how things were handled in the locker room when slumps set in, when a playoff loss happens, etc. It's also possible that despite playing a little less minutes, they're still playing in a proper system, which may be contributing to positive development.

          2. Increased value of assets. I think two things are driving the value of our assets down right now: a. the number of teams selling (Afflalo, Turner, Young, Rondo?, etc.) and b. lack of recognition. The team's performance is already bringing a lot more attention to guys like DD and Lowry and I think this stretch of games has at least somewhat increased their trade value.

          3. Assuming we stay in the lottery for and equal number of years, whether we tank this year or next, we'll receive one extra low pick in 2017 (?).

          4. A fun year to watch basketball before it goes to sh*t.

          And, on the other side of the coin, what are we losing:

          -1. Draft position in 2014.

          -2. One year off of JV's and Ross's rookie contract. This one's looking like it won't be too hurtful right now. I don't think either of those guys are gettting max extensions.

          -3. One year of my life (I'm only 22 so I can wait.)
          I'm on board with this.

          Even if we sell Lowry before trade deadline, we may still have enough firepower to squeak into the playoffs and then in the offseason we do our tear down and start the rebuild with a middle 2014 pick (say Ennis at the PG....) and a post from next years draft (which is loaded)

          Comment


          • #35
            Heh.

            This year was a tank year. It started wit rudy getting shipped for cap space and some pine riders.

            The pone riders over archived. The Point guard actually took the managements advice and is not twice the player he ever was. The SG kept improving. Two second year players.... doing ok.

            This was NEVER gonna be a year to compete for the third spot in the east....if you think it was you're mistaken. Everything that has happened was unexpected, and it caused UM to pause, and when he paused, right after the trade, this team promptly won 5 games and took itself out of the tank.

            Nobody thought it would happen. It wasn't supposed to happen.

            Masai isn't a god, he's a good GM, and he played the odds and lost, so once that happened he had to pray for wins. So now you have a squad, that isn't even a playoff team in the west, toiling at .500, which is what we like to call "no mans land".

            I don't have an axe to grind, I like Masai a great deal, but he got effed over with this over achieving group of guys, and I think everyone knows that.

            So now, it is what it is, and unless this team shocks the world and finishes out season strong, they will be around the 14-18th draft pick, and THAT my friends is failure. Might have been uncontrollable, but it ain't winning.

            Comment


            • #36
              Craig wrote: View Post
              Heh.

              This year was a tank year. It started wit rudy getting shipped for cap space and some pine riders.

              The pone riders over archived. The Point guard actually took the managements advice and is not twice the player he ever was. The SG kept improving. Two second year players.... doing ok.

              This was NEVER gonna be a year to compete for the third spot in the east....if you think it was you're mistaken. Everything that has happened was unexpected, and it caused UM to pause, and when he paused, right after the trade, this team promptly won 5 games and took itself out of the tank.

              Nobody thought it would happen. It wasn't supposed to happen.

              Masai isn't a god, he's a good GM, and he played the odds and lost, so once that happened he had to pray for wins. So now you have a squad, that isn't even a playoff team in the west, toiling at .500, which is what we like to call "no mans land".

              I don't have an axe to grind, I like Masai a great deal, but he got effed over with this over achieving group of guys, and I think everyone knows that.

              So now, it is what it is, and unless this team shocks the world and finishes out season strong, they will be around the 14-18th draft pick, and THAT my friends is failure. Might have been uncontrollable, but it ain't winning.
              Or by Dolan?!

              Comment


              • #37
                Craig wrote: View Post
                Heh.

                This year was a tank year. It started wit rudy getting shipped for cap space and some pine riders.

                The pone riders over archived. The Point guard actually took the managements advice and is not twice the player he ever was. The SG kept improving. Two second year players.... doing ok.

                This was NEVER gonna be a year to compete for the third spot in the east....if you think it was you're mistaken. Everything that has happened was unexpected, and it caused UM to pause, and when he paused, right after the trade, this team promptly won 5 games and took itself out of the tank.

                Nobody thought it would happen. It wasn't supposed to happen.

                Masai isn't a god, he's a good GM, and he played the odds and lost, so once that happened he had to pray for wins. So now you have a squad, that isn't even a playoff team in the west, toiling at .500, which is what we like to call "no mans land".

                I don't have an axe to grind, I like Masai a great deal, but he got effed over with this over achieving group of guys, and I think everyone knows that.

                So now, it is what it is, and unless this team shocks the world and finishes out season strong, they will be around the 14-18th draft pick, and THAT my friends is failure. Might have been uncontrollable, but it ain't winning.
                You wanted a high draft pick. I get that, hell I want a high draft pick. But what would you have done if for a second we pretend you were MU this season? Can you please elaborate what moves you would have pulled to get us into that famous top 5-pick territory? I think most would agree that we would have needed to loose Lowry and DD to get there? So my question - what kind of return do you think you could get from them? Remember, NYK shot down a Lowry for Shump+filler+future 1st rounder.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Craig wrote: View Post
                  Heh.

                  This year was a tank year. It started wit rudy getting shipped for cap space and some pine riders.

                  The pone riders over archived. The Point guard actually took the managements advice and is not twice the player he ever was. The SG kept improving. Two second year players.... doing ok.

                  This was NEVER gonna be a year to compete for the third spot in the east....if you think it was you're mistaken. Everything that has happened was unexpected, and it caused UM to pause, and when he paused, right after the trade, this team promptly won 5 games and took itself out of the tank.

                  Nobody thought it would happen. It wasn't supposed to happen.

                  Masai isn't a god, he's a good GM, and he played the odds and lost, so once that happened he had to pray for wins. So now you have a squad, that isn't even a playoff team in the west, toiling at .500, which is what we like to call "no mans land".

                  I don't have an axe to grind, I like Masai a great deal, but he got effed over with this over achieving group of guys, and I think everyone knows that.

                  So now, it is what it is, and unless this team shocks the world and finishes out season strong, they will be around the 14-18th draft pick, and THAT my friends is failure. Might have been uncontrollable, but it ain't winning.
                  Meh, at first glance I'd agree, but...

                  It remains to be seen whether or not MU really would have been better off building from ground 0 - a crap roster and a high 2014 lottery pick. It takes several seasons to build out of that situation into a legit playoff team.

                  Instead MU's starting with, evidently, a playoff squad. Sure they're "only .500" but at the same time they're a bunch of young guys on the upswing. By no means has this talent peaked, nor is this roster handcuffed by bad contracts. MU doesn't have a top 6 pick in 2014, but he does have a lot of nice assets to play with.

                  Only time will tell if it takes Ujiri longer to build a contender out of this situation than he would have with a top 2014 pick and a mess of a roster.
                  "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Craig wrote: View Post
                    Heh.

                    This year was a tank year. It started wit rudy getting shipped for cap space and some pine riders.

                    The pone riders over archived. The Point guard actually took the managements advice and is not twice the player he ever was. The SG kept improving. Two second year players.... doing ok.

                    This was NEVER gonna be a year to compete for the third spot in the east....if you think it was you're mistaken. Everything that has happened was unexpected, and it caused UM to pause, and when he paused, right after the trade, this team promptly won 5 games and took itself out of the tank.

                    Nobody thought it would happen. It wasn't supposed to happen.

                    Masai isn't a god, he's a good GM, and he played the odds and lost, so once that happened he had to pray for wins. So now you have a squad, that isn't even a playoff team in the west, toiling at .500, which is what we like to call "no mans land".

                    I don't have an axe to grind, I like Masai a great deal, but he got effed over with this over achieving group of guys, and I think everyone knows that.

                    So now, it is what it is, and unless this team shocks the world and finishes out season strong, they will be around the 14-18th draft pick, and THAT my friends is failure. Might have been uncontrollable, but it ain't winning.
                    Clearly though, this year isn`t just all about the draft pick, because he could easily ship Lowry off for scrap. So he must see some benefit to what`s going on.
                    "Bruno?
                    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                    He's terrible."

                    -Superjudge, 7/23

                    Hope you're wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      calgaryrapsfan wrote: View Post
                      or by dolan?!
                      dolans revenge!!!!!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        stooley wrote: View Post
                        Clearly though, this year isn`t just all about the draft pick, because he could easily ship Lowry off for scrap. So he must see some benefit to what`s going on.
                        Well, I think what he is seeing, maybe, and what few are talking about, are a bunch of likely real strong rumours that a lot of these guys are gonna go back to school.... hell Wiggans isn't even a lock to leave if you ask me.

                        This might not be the draft people think it is.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Craig wrote: View Post
                          This might not be the draft people think it is.
                          Have you folks seen the 2nd part of Bill & Jalen's newest Birdmester summary?
                          Granted, those guys are wrong a lot, but they provide some interesting thoughts on the draft.
                          Primarily, that the players aren't as good as advertised.

                          They don't say it's bad by any means, but they are very suspect about the player's ability to be franchise center-pieces.

                          They talk about Wiggins playing against DeRozan as well, so that's cool

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7CCRbXwwkc

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            slaw wrote: View Post
                            Not sure how you can advocate a tank and say you have no patience. If/when the Raptors go full tank mode, it will be at minimum two full seasons after the tank before the Raps would be even close to respectable again. If they get a superstar, they might be a playoff team by the third year. That's three years of losing (minimum) to get to the playoffs.

                            Again, that's fine, but if you aren't willing to wait out 50 games, how are you going to wait out 240?
                            I have no patience for a team that is still very much a giant question mark.

                            The time frame is opinion. No one truly knows. Sure, point to OKC, however, they started with Johan Petro as their young prospect. Raps already have two quality pieces in JV and Ross. Maybe I'm naive but I also believe Toronto will have ability to lure meaningful free agent(s) and an ownership group willing to pay to keep the team together when it comes time to pay them.


                            One perspective is 3 years of losing. Another perspective would be watching a team built from the ground up. I have all the patience in the world (or 246 games) to watch a team built. It is this mediocrity I can't stand.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Craig wrote: View Post
                              Well, I think what he is seeing, maybe, and what few are talking about, are a bunch of likely real strong rumours that a lot of these guys are gonna go back to school.... hell Wiggans isn't even a lock to leave if you ask me.

                              This might not be the draft people think it is.
                              That is turning to the only consolation prize.

                              Maybe when a few guys drop out of '14 and the hype turns to outright negativity, picks might be available by desperate GMs looking to appease fickle owners and impatient fans.

                              The more I look through the guys projected to go 7-15 the more I like.... well, a few at least.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Shrub wrote: View Post
                                Have you folks seen the 2nd part of Bill & Jalen's newest Birdmester summary?
                                Granted, those guys are wrong a lot, but they provide some interesting thoughts on the draft.
                                Primarily, that the players aren't as good as advertised.

                                They don't say it's bad by any means, but they are very suspect about the player's ability to be franchise center-pieces.

                                They talk about Wiggins playing against DeRozan as well, so that's cool

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7CCRbXwwkc

                                Draft Express was saying the same on Twitter a week or two ago. Outside the top 6 or 7 it's not that spectacular.

                                On something kind of unrelated, right now 3 Canadians are predicted to go in the 1st round, with a couple more in the 2nd. Pretty crazy stuff!
                                Eh follow my TWITTER!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X