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JV needs to grow up a little bit

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  • #31
    1. The hero narrative espoused by many fans results, in part, from management's failure to adequately manage expectations for JV, particularly before his rookie season. This was then further reinforced by reports from this year stating that JV was the Raptors' only "untouchable" player, thus indicating his relative importance to the team.

    2. If you move on to the sentence right after the section you bolded, you'd see that I qualified my previous point by indicating JVs partially to blame for his perceived lack of FGAs.

    3. The Hansbrough thing was my mistake, as I was actually thinking of Vasquez. Here, Greivas averages 7 FGAs a game, despite his horrendous shooting percentages, which is only 1.4 less than JV, a center who plays 1.5 times more minutes per game. Obviously, this supports my argument that as a NBA big, JV is heavily dependent upon the guards on his team for his offensive touches (unlike fellow Raptors sophmore, Terrence Ross, who has averaged 10+ FGAs a game over the past 3 months).

    4. Your point about Hansbrough's offensive rebounding efforts does have some merit. However, if you look at his off rebounding percentage, its only slightly higher than JVs. The difference, then, is that when Hansbrough catches an offensive board, his only thought is to take the ball back up himself, even if there is a better play to make or almost no chance of making the basketball. Yes, Hansbrough does have a great ability to crash the offensive glass and get to the free throw line (which is needed on this team) but he only shots 71% from there, and 45% from the field, indicating that on a lot of those possessions, he's not the best option. Ideally, you'd have Hansbrough do that a little less (hopefully raising his FG%) while JV does it a bit more (raising his FGAs) but this isn't NBA 2K.
    Being a Toronto Raptors fan is like being in an abusive relationship... Every time you've reached your breaking point after years of disappointment and neglect, they do just enough to give you hope for the future... Only to let you down again.

    Here's hoping 2014-2015 breaks the cycle!!! #WeTheNorth

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    • #32
      P.s., I'm not trying to say we should run our offense through JV, that he should get 13-15 FGAs a game, or that he's without fault and doesn't have a lot of growth/maturation left before he's any of those previous point (if ever). But, I am trying to say that he does deserve more touches than he's getting, and that the team isn't handling his development in an ideal fashion. It's just without a quality pass-first point guard or a PnR heavy offense, a team's bigs can often get forgotten over the course of the game, which happens more than it probably should with the Raptors. Also, a LOT of bigs tend to lose their intensity and focus in other areas of the game if they go long stretches without being meaningfully involved offensively (i.e. more than the obligatory post ups to start each half and setting screens).
      Being a Toronto Raptors fan is like being in an abusive relationship... Every time you've reached your breaking point after years of disappointment and neglect, they do just enough to give you hope for the future... Only to let you down again.

      Here's hoping 2014-2015 breaks the cycle!!! #WeTheNorth

      Comment


      • #33
        Abused Raptors Fan wrote: View Post
        P.s., I'm not trying to say we should run our offense through JV, that he should get 13-15 FGAs a game, or that he's without fault and doesn't have a lot of growth/maturation left before he's any of those previous point (if ever). But, I am trying to say that he does deserve more touches than he's getting, and that the team isn't handling his development in an ideal fashion. It's just without a quality pass-first point guard or a PnR heavy offense, a team's bigs can often get forgotten over the course of the game, which happens more than it probably should with the Raptors. Also, a LOT of bigs tend to lose their intensity and focus in other areas of the game if they go long stretches without being meaningfully involved offensively (i.e. more than the obligatory post ups to start each half and setting screens).
        And people sometimes think because of an opinion like this we're JV-lovers....It's deeper than that. It is a team-oriented problem

        The way we involve most of our players is through a jumpshot-heavy offence. Good luck getting anywhere with that. Amir and Patterson see more touches because they see perimeter touches. But there are just not enough plays, or enough of an effort being made to get points down low and in the lane for our bigs. It's never good to be a jumpshooting team, especially when you have few quality jumpshooters, and you run no inside-out game. We don't even post up DeMar. And considering how little we run anything through the post, I'm convinced it's more because of design than because of DeMar's reluctance to go there.

        *I mean, yes we want JV's development to be handled better, but only in the sense that the team should be doing things that would be good for his development, and our bigs' involvement anyway.
        Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Feb 13, 2014, 08:02 PM.

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        • #34
          Part of its definitely because Lowry is a unique point guard in that he doesn't play a lot of PnR, yet he's also not like some other guards who look to get teammates open looks by breaking down the D by driving into the paint and kicking it out for a 3, passing to a slashing guard or dumping it off to a waiting big. Not that he doesn't do either of those, its just that Lowry generates a lot of offense on the perimeter, especially his own as over half his attempts come from behind the arc (with almost 2/3s of his FGAs coming from at least 16' away from the rim). This wouldn't be a problem, really, if we had more facilitators on our team but its pretty thin outside Lowry, Vasquez and DD (since the trade).
          Being a Toronto Raptors fan is like being in an abusive relationship... Every time you've reached your breaking point after years of disappointment and neglect, they do just enough to give you hope for the future... Only to let you down again.

          Here's hoping 2014-2015 breaks the cycle!!! #WeTheNorth

          Comment


          • #35
            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
            And people sometimes think because of an opinion like this we're JV-lovers....It's deeper than that. It is a team-oriented problem

            The way we involve most of our players is through a jumpshot-heavy offence. Good luck getting anywhere with that. Amir and Patterson see more touches because they see perimeter touches. But there are just not enough plays, or enough of an effort being made to get points down low and in the lane for our bigs. It's never good to be a jumpshooting team, especially when you have few quality jumpshooters, and you run no inside-out game. We don't even post up DeMar. And considering how little we run anything through the post, I'm convinced it's more because of design than because of DeMar's reluctance to go there.

            *I mean, yes we want JV's development to be handled better, but only in the sense that the team should be doing things that would be good for his development, and our bigs' involvement anyway.
            This x1000000

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            • #36
              Abused Raptors Fan wrote: View Post
              Part of its definitely because Lowry is a unique point guard in that he doesn't play a lot of PnR, yet he's also not like some other guards who look to get teammates open looks by breaking down the D by driving into the paint and kicking it out for a 3, passing to a slashing guard or dumping it off to a waiting big. Not that he doesn't do either of those, its just that Lowry generates a lot of offense on the perimeter, especially his own as over half his attempts come from behind the arc (with almost 2/3s of his FGAs coming from at least 16' away from the rim). This wouldn't be a problem, really, if we had more facilitators on our team but its pretty thin outside Lowry, Vasquez and DD (since the trade).
              This.

              DeMar's next evolution is breaking down the D with the dribble. Lowry is drive & kick type and Vasquez is too slow that he doesn't really get into the lane as much.

              JV, Amir & Patty P are not skilled in the post where you can run the offense through them there. I can honestly say DeMar is our best post player but that creates an imbalance & even he can't take everyone there - match up dependent.

              Until JV shows he can be a threat down low almost everytime he has the ball down there, I wouldn't run too many plays through him. He gets a few looks & has pretty much 1 go to move.

              He should get better with time. Right now, his role is good for where he is in his development.
              “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

              -- Charles Barkley

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              • #37
                C'mon, JV is 21. He'll get there eventually
                The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                • #38
                  Abused Raptors Fan wrote: View Post
                  A lot of JVs problems result from the mismatch between the messages and expectations coming from the organization (i.e. he's the future face of the franchise, star in the making, the only untouchable) and how he's treated on the court by his teammates and coaches. When you're basically told that you're the franchise's most important piece moving forward, you're going to try and live up to those expectations with your play. Yet, when your team provides more opportunities to recently signed rotation players (Hansbrough only attempts 1 less shot per game, while playing a little over half as many minutes) you're going to get frustrated. Granted, some of the onus here falls on JV, but as a big man, he's almost completely dependent upon the team's guards to provide him with scoring opportunities. And, as a young player, its not uncommon for these frustrations to materialize as undesirable behavior on the court.
                  As far as repeating the same mistakes over and over, the nba season provides few opportunities for players to improve in season, as there's little time to conduct indepth individual performance reviews, focus on subtle nuances or work on specific aspects of your game. Practice time is very valuable, and is thus mostly used to implement and practice defensive schemes, offensive sets and game plans. So, I'll reserve my judgments for next season, as those kinds of improvements are exactly what the summer's for (which, by the way, wasn't possible for JV last year between playing for his national team, summer league and training camp).
                  Good post. His perceived expectations definitely play into the dynamics of this.

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                  • #39
                    Honestly, he doesn't need to grow up any more. He's already 7'0 tall
                    OG is our king

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                    • #40
                      navyblues wrote: View Post
                      The other thing that makes him seem kind of childish is that he never, ever accepts a foul being called on him. Obviously there are going to be questionable calls. But every time, JV goes for the Oscar: "who, me!?" or he does his patented wrist-drop dismissal gesture that's already garnered him a tech or two. The kid needs to learn to focus on the game no matter what is going on with the refs, and not expect to get bailed out with a whistle when he misses a rebound battle.
                      Forgive me if it's already been mentioned, I'm at work and didn't read the whole thread, but to me that's a sign of supreme confidence. There isn't a superstar in the league that doesn't do this exact same thing and I'd rather he argued calls and felt like he was infallible while he's out there than slink away downcast afterward, because unshakeable confidence is one of the necessary attributes of any successful professional athlete.

                      In fact a lot of what makes JV a frustrating player right now seems to me to be exactly what you expect from a young player who is used to greatness and is now dealing with mediocrity: his black-hole-ness in the post, his frustration at being looked off, his frustration with calls, etc. That shows me he expects great things from himself and isn't shying away from trying to live up to his own lofty standards. The skills will eventually catch up with that attitude and when they do he's going to be just fine.

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                      • #41
                        torch19 wrote: View Post
                        Until JV shows he can be a threat down low almost everytime he has the ball down there, I wouldn't run too many plays through him. He gets a few looks & has pretty much 1 go to move.

                        He should get better with time. Right now, his role is good for where he is in his development.
                        I agree, JV needs to work in a little more variety into his post ups, although I've seen enough to believe that he's more than capable of doing so, as he's shown a baseline spin to create space for a jump hook (not sure why he almost never does this though, as the entire league knows he's going to drive into the middle of the paint for his running hook at this point lol), as well as the occasional up n' under and mid-range jumper. I think at this point, it more a question of habit, comfort and confidence.

                        I don't think they should give him more than he can handle or deserve right now, but I thinkworking some consistent pick n' roll sets with the intention of setting JV up as the roll man into the team's offense would be great for his development. Especially since getting those easy buckets would hopefully reduce his tendency to force the issue on offense when his game isn't on.
                        Being a Toronto Raptors fan is like being in an abusive relationship... Every time you've reached your breaking point after years of disappointment and neglect, they do just enough to give you hope for the future... Only to let you down again.

                        Here's hoping 2014-2015 breaks the cycle!!! #WeTheNorth

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Abused Raptors Fan wrote: View Post
                          I agree, JV needs to work in a little more variety into his post ups, although I've seen enough to believe that he's more than capable of doing so, as he's shown a baseline spin to create space for a jump hook (not sure why he almost never does this though, as the entire league knows he's going to drive into the middle of the paint for his running hook at this point lol), as well as the occasional up n' under and mid-range jumper. I think at this point, it more a question of habit, comfort and confidence.
                          I agree. That seems like his best move as far as success rate is concerned, but he does it far less than that rumbling into the middle of lane hook shot thing.

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                          • #43
                            JV in New Orleans....he may never come back.

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                            • #44
                              consmap wrote: View Post
                              Honestly, he doesn't need to grow up any more. He's already 7'0 tall
                              Seriously people. How tall do you want him?

                              Twitter - @thekid_it

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                              • #45
                                Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                                Forgive me if it's already been mentioned, I'm at work and didn't read the whole thread, but to me that's a sign of supreme confidence. There isn't a superstar in the league that doesn't do this exact same thing and I'd rather he argued calls and felt like he was infallible while he's out there than slink away downcast afterward, because unshakeable confidence is one of the necessary attributes of any successful professional athlete.


                                This seems like a joke. I'm not a psychologist here. I'm not going to do a 10 page profile on the young Lithuanian. But sulking, pouting, dragging your heels and literally hanging your head after a foul is called on you (a foul you deserved) actually shows a complete lack of confidence. A confident person would be able to either shake it off and not let it bother him, or be able to tell the referee what he thinks, without becoming emotional. And I'm not saying he won't get there. But right now he's showing insecurity, not confidence.

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