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What will happen if the Raptors trade for an elite talent?

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  • I'm absolutely baffled as to why people want Bosh back
    @sweatpantsjer

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    • ceez wrote: View Post
      I'm absolutely baffled as to why people want Bosh back
      Because basketball wise he's great, and history wise I guess some people just don't care or don't hold a grudge in this case.

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      • ceez wrote: View Post
        I'm absolutely baffled as to why people want Bosh back
        Unbelievable. Nothing screams "Championship Aspirations!" like signing Chris Bosh for years 30-35, right? #sarcasm

        Holy smokes guys. This team is not spending multiple seasons of patient roster building to go eventually target 30 year old Chris Bosh... Talk about short-term memory. I'm almost speechless.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
          Because basketball wise he's great.
          As a #1 guy he only ever managed a couple quick 1st round flame outs. This does not make him "great." He's a very talented 3rd banana on a championship team. He is not a "great" #1 guy now, and he definitely won't be when he's 34 years old and making $15 mil.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
            Because basketball wise he's great, and history wise I guess some people just don't care or don't hold a grudge in this case.
            For me, there are 2 reasons why I have no desire to welcome Bosh back, without even getting into debates about history or how good he is:

            1. He's now 30+ and on the downslope of his career, which doesn't really align well with this team's young core that should ideally peak in 2-3 seasons.

            2. He's not the sort of player I think about when I long for a traditional low-post PF. He relies as much or more on his face-up and mid-range game, which doesn't really speak to the true needs of the current Raptors team.

            He'll likely command a salary well beyond what a player should get, given the two points above. It would be overpaying for a has-been, second-tier star player, who doesn't really even fulfill the team's true needs. Pass.

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            • S.R. wrote: View Post
              As a #1 guy he only ever managed a couple quick 1st round flame outs. This does not make him "great." He's a very talented 3rd banana on a championship team. He is not a "great" #1 guy now, and he definitely won't be when he's 34 years old and making $15 mil.
              I'm not advocating chasing Bosh, but I do think that, in his prime, he's a capable co-first option, in the same way Aldridge and Lillard are.

              Bosh seems to be under-utilized on the offensive end in Miami.

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              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                For me, there are 2 reasons why I have no desire to welcome Bosh back, without even getting into debates about history or how good he is:

                1. He's now 30+ and on the downslope of his career, which doesn't really align well with this team's young core that should ideally peak in 2-3 seasons.

                2. He's not the sort of player I think about when I long for a traditional low-post PF. He relies as much or more on his face-up and mid-range game, which doesn't really speak to the true needs of the current Raptors team.

                He'll likely command a salary well beyond what a player should get, given the two points above. It would be overpaying for a has-been, second-tier star player, who doesn't really even fulfill the team's true needs. Pass.
                And Bosh cares more about "building his brand", than anything else. Oh, and we don't get ESPN up here, so he's not coming anyway.

                This would be a classic Colangelo type of move.

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  And Bosh cares more about "building his brand", than anything else. Oh, and we don't get ESPN up here, so he's not coming anyway.
                  Conversely one could say he cares more about "winning games" than anything else.

                  Hate him all you want for the douchy way he left but he's one of only a small percentage of all-stars in any sport who in their prime put their numbers on the back burner for a chance to be champion.

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                  • How about 'Melo? Don't say no just because it's the first instinct to do so. He's a prolific scorer, in the clutch or through the game, draws double teams, not a great defender but can hold his own. Brings swagger, etc., etc.,. He doesn't fit into every system but I think he would fit into Toronto's. As long as there is defence around him he can carry the scoring load. We've got shooters (Ross, Lowry, PP), defenders (JV, Amir, Hansborough), and a second banana (DD) to surround him.

                    Not saying he would want to play for Toronto, or that this has a prayer of happening, but as far as fit goes it's not the worst I could think of. Frankly I think he provides more of what Toronto needs to get to the next level than K. Love does.

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                    • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      For me, there are 2 reasons why I have no desire to welcome Bosh back, without even getting into debates about history or how good he is:

                      1. He's now 30+ and on the downslope of his career, which doesn't really align well with this team's young core that should ideally peak in 2-3 seasons.

                      2. He's not the sort of player I think about when I long for a traditional low-post PF. He relies as much or more on his face-up and mid-range game, which doesn't really speak to the true needs of the current Raptors team.

                      He'll likely command a salary well beyond what a player should get, given the two points above. It would be overpaying for a has-been, second-tier star player, who doesn't really even fulfill the team's true needs. Pass.
                      I think his game is what this team needs. Mid range game in general is conducive to winning in the playoffs, since low post and 3pt shooting get to some degree taken away by the best defensive teams. And Bosh isn't just elite at midrange, he's probably the most offensively versatile big man as far as scoring areas.

                      Depends on who's the 'traditional low post PF', I guess. I wouldn't mind Aldridge but that's very unlikely to happen. Someone like Monroe? That would seem like a terrible fit next to Jonas.

                      Bosh is 29 now and soon 30, and the Heat have played lots of games over the last 4 years, so it makes sense to keep his minutes within reason. But in terms of his actual game, I think he's the best he's ever been. He gets terribly underrated sometimes. I think he's simply one of the best bigs in the game.

                      I think it comes down to me simply valuing Bosh higher as a player.

                      I don't see a decline in his game, I see a few injuries that are concerning, so that's something for physicians to judge. Maybe they'd decide that Bosh is too risky, I don't know. I don't see a decline in his game but I can't look inside his knees.

                      I expect Lowry's window (as an all star caliber player) to be some 4-5 more years. At some point, the team will have to be retooled around presumably Jonas and DeMar.

                      Ideally, they add someone like Love or Durant, a young superstar. More likely, looking at players available, they would either (A) add a great vet and take advantage of Lowry's peak, and then eventually retool. Or (B) target someone lesser and younger, maybe Lance Stephenson or Chandler Parsons, add a few decent youngsters via draft, replace Lowry at some point in a Nene type trade, try to make trades and hope that this cocktail of young talent develops into a team that can contend and win 50+ games for some years eventually. I'm ok with both scenarios.

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                      • S.R. wrote: View Post
                        As a #1 guy he only ever managed a couple quick 1st round flame outs. This does not make him "great." He's a very talented 3rd banana on a championship team. He is not a "great" #1 guy now, and he definitely won't be when he's 34 years old and making $15 mil.
                        So basically about as much as Kevin Love never managed. Kevin Garnett managed one deep playoffs run in Minnesota and that's the year when he had two borderline all star caliber players next to him. It's a team game.

                        Supporting cast on those Bosh teams doesn't come close to this current Raptors team. I'd even say that there are two players on this team considerably better than any Bosh Raptors teammate.

                        We also shouldn't ignore his improvement since Toronto days. Especially on the defensive end, but his range has improved as well. I'm not sure this team even needs an offensive superstar. The Raptors are a top 10 offense already. I'd prefer a smart two way star.

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                        • demar is our star

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                          • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                            How about 'Melo? Don't say no just because it's the first instinct to do so. He's a prolific scorer, in the clutch or through the game, draws double teams, not a great defender but can hold his own. Brings swagger, etc., etc.,. He doesn't fit into every system but I think he would fit into Toronto's. As long as there is defence around him he can carry the scoring load. We've got shooters (Ross, Lowry, PP), defenders (JV, Amir, Hansborough), and a second banana (DD) to surround him.

                            Not saying he would want to play for Toronto, or that this has a prayer of happening, but as far as fit goes it's not the worst I could think of. Frankly I think he provides more of what Toronto needs to get to the next level than K. Love does.
                            I wouldn't want Melo. Too much ISO, and I'm not a fan of that type of ball. But what I think Melo needs more than anything is a dominant post player to work with, and I don't think he has ever had that. Melo is like Kobe in my mind. They are both great scorers and can dominate the perimeter and mid-range. And Kobe had his greatest success paired with a dominant big man, with Shaq and Pau of course. This is really what Melo should be looking for. He is a high usage, volume shooting perimeter player that I think would work best with the same type of player, but one that operates in the post. That type of team could run its offense just through those two players and have alot of success offensively. Add in some shooters and crafty defenders and you may get a contender. Melo doesn't need a second banana, he needs another guy on the team that is at his level, or very close to it, or even better than him. He needs a guy to dump the ball into the post and let him go to work once in awhile. He needs another ISO player that can share the burden, or even take games over once in awhile. And I don't think it's any good if that other player is sharing space on the perimeter with him. Sure they could have success but would they contend. I don't think so. But I think you could build a contender around a Melo/Dirk combo, or Aldridge, or Love, Cousins maybe or Anthony Davis, players like that. There really aren't many options though.

                            I don't think we have what I believe Melo needs and so I would pass. I really don't think he would be a good fit with the Raps.

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                            • BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
                              So basically about as much as Kevin Love never managed. Kevin Garnett managed one deep playoffs run in Minnesota and that's the year when he had two borderline all star caliber players next to him. It's a team game.

                              Supporting cast on those Bosh teams doesn't come close to this current Raptors team. I'd even say that there are two players on this team considerably better than any Bosh Raptors teammate.

                              We also shouldn't ignore his improvement since Toronto days. Especially on the defensive end, but his range has improved as well. I'm not sure this team even needs an offensive superstar. The Raptors are a top 10 offense already. I'd prefer a smart two way star.
                              Totally agree with everything here except for the calibre of talent you're attributing to Bosh. He does everything you say, but not at a #1 guy on a championship team level - not even close, in my opinion.

                              I'm not big on Love, Melo, or any other guy that you have to severely compensate for at one end of the court. Aim for a guy that actually plays basketball really well at both ends of the floor, instead of just doing one or two things (scoring, rebounding) really well. Very few championship are won with 1-dimensional superstars.

                              Still think a big problem is that Bosh is 5 years older than most of the core.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                              • JawsGT wrote: View Post
                                I wouldn't want Melo. Too much ISO, and I'm not a fan of that type of ball. But what I think Melo needs more than anything is a dominant post player to work with, and I don't think he has ever had that. Melo is like Kobe in my mind. They are both great scorers and can dominate the perimeter and mid-range. And Kobe had his greatest success paired with a dominant big man, with Shaq and Pau of course. This is really what Melo should be looking for. He is a high usage, volume shooting perimeter player that I think would work best with the same type of player, but one that operates in the post. That type of team could run its offense just through those two players and have alot of success offensively. Add in some shooters and crafty defenders and you may get a contender. Melo doesn't need a second banana, he needs another guy on the team that is at his level, or very close to it, or even better than him. He needs a guy to dump the ball into the post and let him go to work once in awhile. He needs another ISO player that can share the burden, or even take games over once in awhile. And I don't think it's any good if that other player is sharing space on the perimeter with him. Sure they could have success but would they contend. I don't think so. But I think you could build a contender around a Melo/Dirk combo, or Aldridge, or Love, Cousins maybe or Anthony Davis, players like that. There really aren't many options though.

                                I don't think we have what I believe Melo needs and so I would pass. I really don't think he would be a good fit with the Raps.
                                Interesting comparison with Kobe. I think that both Shaquille and Paul were second banana though.....at least Pau for sure and the fact Shaquille refused to be is what started their downfall.

                                The one thing I think that a lot of people aren't considering is that any elite player we get will shift our offense from a spread out style to a more ISO focused offense. Good point about Melo and DD sharing the same space though. I still think it could work considering LBJ and Wade share the same space.

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