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Why Is It Better That We Have Vasquez and Not Augustin?

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  • #16
    Employee wrote: View Post
    Also, Thibs.
    Yes. He is becoming one of those rare head coaches that actually makes guys better....

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    • #17
      BallaBalla wrote: View Post
      But that's my question. What did he not deliver that vasquez is delivering? Why isn't vasquez in a 3 man platoon with Dwight and Stone?
      http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baske...-augustin.html

      Here's what Augustin has to say....

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      • #18
        planetmars wrote: View Post
        I'm happy for him. His play with the Bulls will most likely keep him in the league now at least for his next contract. What ticked me off was that MU waived him instead of traded him. For such an important piece in Chicago's line up - I'm sure they would have been willing to give us at least a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps MU felt bad for the veteran and let him find a team of his choosing? Maybe he just wanted to do a solid for him and his agent perhaps... but it would have been nice to get an asset back after seeing what's he's been doing there in Chicago.
        If you don't think Masai did a quick run around the league as the Rudy trade was happening to see if anybody wanted Augustin cheaply (cash, a second-rounder, etc.) you're nuts. There's no chance Masai didn't at least check to see if he could get even a little something for Augustin, and nobody bit because this was the second team in a row where Augustin had been given an opportunity and flunked.

        Nobody was going to give up anything for him because they knew he was going to be released following the Rudy trade because he and Austin Daye were the least valuable players Toronto had, and Daye hadn't gotten minutes to flunk out yet and DJ had, so if you want DJ, do you give up extra assets for him or wait for the inevitable waiver and just sign him for less expense?

        It's always good to remember that, the Bargnani trade aside, most NBA GMs aren't blitheringly stupid.

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        • #19
          magoon wrote: View Post
          If you don't think Masai did a quick run around the league as the Rudy trade was happening to see if anybody wanted Augustin cheaply (cash, a second-rounder, etc.) you're nuts. There's no chance Masai didn't at least check to see if he could get even a little something for Augustin, and nobody bit because this was the second team in a row where Augustin had been given an opportunity and flunked.

          Nobody was going to give up anything for him because they knew he was going to be released following the Rudy trade because he and Austin Daye were the least valuable players Toronto had, and Daye hadn't gotten minutes to flunk out yet and DJ had, so if you want DJ, do you give up extra assets for him or wait for the inevitable waiver and just sign him for less expense?

          It's always good to remember that, the Bargnani trade aside, most NBA GMs aren't blitheringly stupid.
          Betting on an "inevitable waiver" is risky. What happens if MU holds on to him? Yes DJ stunk but it's not like Stone or Buycks were any better. DJ was basically an expiring as well.

          All we have is hindsight at this point. He could have been trying to sell DJ and nobody bit.. but the better option would have been for him to keep DJ and waive Stone (or Bucyks). The trade deadline was still a couple of months away. At that point Chicago could have been more desperate and offered a 2nd rounder. And if nobody bit after the deadline was over then he could have waived him.

          But again I think MU moved DJ because he was doing him a favour and not because it was the smartest move from an asset point of view.

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          • #20
            BallaBalla wrote: View Post
            But that's my question. What did he not deliver that vasquez is delivering? Why isn't vasquez in a 3 man platoon with Dwight and Stone?
            Really? Dude, Vasquez is playing way better than DJ was. He's far from perfect, but he's a very solid backup PG.
            Eh follow my TWITTER!

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            • #21
              DJ Augustin besides hiitting catch and shoot 3s till recently has been a terrible playmaker and never attacks the basket Vasquez is arguably a better defender adds hieght to PG spot and is a way better playmaker and will actually drive to the hoop get to the line etc.

              Dont let DJ being hidden in the suffocating D of the bulls fool you on why he sucks. Casey was right to bench him, he was doing nothing for the team.

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              • #22
                Employee wrote: View Post
                Really? Dude, Vasquez is playing way better than DJ was. He's far from perfect, but he's a very solid backup PG.
                I wonder how well Augustin would be playing behind D Rose?

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                • #23
                  Pele wrote: View Post
                  I wonder how well Augustin would be playing behind D Rose?
                  "Pele was king of soccer field. To be king of your kitchen, use Crestfield Wax Paper"

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                  • #24
                    Because Vasquez is a pass-first point guard. He's like a more agressive/volatile version of Calderon who could help create opportunities for his teammates. Although, I wonder what if DJ had the same bench as Vasquez has now. Before the Gay trade, we basically had no bench (no disrespect to Terrence Ross, Tyler, Quincy, AIRon Grey), and it was very difficult for the team to score or hold leads once the starting 5 leaves the floor. Other corner 3's from TRoss, putbacks by Tyler/Quincy, there's no offense (no one could create their own offense).

                    Regarding DJ tho, he reminds me of John Lucas iii. He was pretty good with the Bulls as DRose's backup and filled-in pretty nicely, as their system is built in a way where the point guard is the number 1 option on offense. And how did he turn out when he played for the Raps last season? The guy thinks he's DRose or Kobe. He and Allen Andersen were such ballhogs. DJ is a scoring pg, and he had a hard time trying to be a pass first (he also sucked in Indiana as the backup).

                    Vasquez tho needs to be more careful with the ball. That guy reminds me of Manu in last year's finals: he'll make a nice play/hit a good shot, then throw the ball away (that 3OT game). He has the worst looking floater imo lol. He doesn't defend well and always relaxes on D unless it's JJ Barea.

                    I therefore conclude that Greivis Vasquez is a better backup pg than DJ Augustin for the Raptors.

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                    • #25
                      2KJ wrote: View Post
                      Because Vasquez is a pass-first point guard. He's like a more agressive/volatile version of Calderon who could help create opportunities for his teammates. Although, I wonder what if DJ had the same bench as Vasquez has now. Before the Gay trade, we basically had no bench (no disrespect to Terrence Ross, Tyler, Quincy, AIRon Grey), and it was very difficult for the team to score or hold leads once the starting 5 leaves the floor. Other corner 3's from TRoss, putbacks by Tyler/Quincy, there's no offense (no one could create their own offense).

                      Regarding DJ tho, he reminds me of John Lucas iii. He was pretty good with the Bulls as DRose's backup and filled-in pretty nicely, as their system is built in a way where the point guard is the number 1 option on offense. And how did he turn out when he played for the Raps last season? The guy thinks he's DRose or Kobe. He and Allen Andersen were such ballhogs. DJ is a scoring pg, and he had a hard time trying to be a pass first (he also sucked in Indiana as the backup).

                      Vasquez tho needs to be more careful with the ball. That guy reminds me of Manu in last year's finals: he'll make a nice play/hit a good shot, then throw the ball away (that 3OT game). He has the worst looking floater imo lol. He doesn't defend well and always relaxes on D unless it's JJ Barea.

                      I therefore conclude that Greivis Vasquez is a better backup pg than DJ Augustin for the Raptors.
                      I agree for the most part. I don't see Vasquez as a pass first PG, at least not in a Raps uniform. I think he is trying to prove that he is a capable starter in this league, and is perhaps trying to show his scoring ability. There are times when I wish he would pass, as he forces up some questionable shots sometimes when his teammates are open. Nonetheless I think he is a good player and would prefer him to DJ, and luckily he has been playing well lately.

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                      • #26
                        BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                        But that's my question. What did he not deliver that vasquez is delivering?
                        Look at the typical Bulls box score. One of two guys will be leading in assists, either Augustin or Noah. Because Noah is such a good passer, that helps D. J. with getting the ball inside, which he did not do well with either the Pacers or the Raptors. In fact, he averaged one assist per game with Toronto, but has 5.2 with the Bulls. Per 36 minutes, the numbers look better: 4.4 with Toronto and 6.2 for the Bulls. I really think the difference is being teamed with Noah, plus playing for a coach who knows point guards and how to use them on offence. Vogel, Casey, and Thibodeau are all defence-first coaches, but only the last one really excels with point guards.

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                        • #27
                          General Grievis Stats line vs Memphis
                          17 pts, 6 asts, 5 rebs- .545 FG%

                          maybe he read this thread before the game...asking are they really comparing me to DJ Augustin!?

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                          • #28
                            slaw wrote: View Post
                            http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baske...-augustin.html

                            Here's what Augustin has to say....
                            imo - when you're in a team surrounded by some of the league's best players, coached by one of the league's best coaches, in a city with a championship history, being cheered by one of the best fanbases in the league ...

                            you tend to want to bring out the best game you can.

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