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Season is over so the question is here, was it worth it?

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  • #16
    Yes. Even if we lose Lowry.

    The trade value of our four starters is much, much higher than it was at the beginning of the season. This is partially due to some great playoff performances by Amir, Jonas and DeRozan, and posting a winning record.

    There is absolutely no way that DeRozan would have made the All-Star team without the team being a few games over .500. Now his stock is at an all-time high. Early in the season if you proposed a Kevin Love for DeRozan + Pick trade, Minnesota would have laughed in your face, now, it's an offer they're going to at least mull over.

    We also still have cap space, as well as 1 First Rounder + 2 Second Rounders. And by not trading Lowry mid-season, we are in the best position to resign him.

    Also remember — Tanking guaranteed NOTHING this year. There were at least 8 or 9 teams aggressively vying for the worst record by the All-Star Break. There was a strong possibility that if we did trade Lowry, we would have still not have been bad enough to get a Top 5 pick. We would have likely have had to trade DeRozan and fire Casey as well for a chance at a high pick.

    When you factor in how aggressively other teams were tanking, and how little other teams were offering for Lowry, the prospect of tanking this year would have been a huge gamble at a steep price.

    We came out ahead. Even if Masai wanted to reset the entire roster, he's in a much better bargaining position now than he was if we had tanked.

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    • #17
      RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
      I was a huge proponent of the tank until it was obvious tanking wasn't going to work considering how deep the top 5 to top 10 of this draft is. Do you guys think losing out on arguably the best draft since 2003 was worth not tanking and going 1 and done in the playoffs?
      How exactly did we lose out on the draft? We still have a 1st round pick (pick 20). We lost out on getting a top 10 pick, but I'm fine sliding back 10 picks in the draft in exchange for the playoff run and improved value of our players and improved perception of our team and fans.

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      • #18
        Everybody on the Roister has "playoff experience" now and we saw how horrible a coach Casey is. This run cleared up a lot of questions about the roster.

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        • #19
          Primer wrote: View Post
          How exactly did we lose out on the draft? We still have a 1st round pick (pick 20). We lost out on getting a top 10 pick, but I'm fine sliding back 10 picks in the draft in exchange for the playoff run and improved value of our players and improved perception of our team and fans.
          And if MU is hell-bent on moving into the lottery, top-10, top-5, or targeting a specific player, I really think he has assets to work with. He has the #20 & #37 pick in 2014, an extra 2016 1st round pick, value contracts (Salmons & Hansbrough), and valuable players like DeRozan/Ross, Johnson/Patterson(S&T), Vasquez(S&T).

          If Lowry walks for nothing, then it would be easy to look back and wish the Raps had a much higher draft pick to work with as a starting point (would hurt even more if a team in the 10-14 range were to win the lottery, or even move into the top-3), but MU still has lots of options for approaching the draft.

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          • #20
            Raptors should also have $3M in cash that they can use in one single trade. I don't believe MU used that in any of his deals he made this year.

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            • #21
              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              And if MU is hell-bent on moving into the lottery, top-10, top-5, or targeting a specific player, I really think he has assets to work with. He has the #20 & #37 pick in 2014, an extra 2016 1st round pick, value contracts (Salmons & Hansbrough), and valuable players like DeRozan/Ross, Johnson/Patterson(S&T), Vasquez(S&T).

              If Lowry walks for nothing, then it would be easy to look back and wish the Raps had a much higher draft pick to work with as a starting point (would hurt even more if a team in the 10-14 range were to win the lottery, or even move into the top-3), but MU still has lots of options for approaching the draft.
              Bang on, CRF on the point of Masai having options. I think the kid he covets is Wiggins. I think he's gonna try to move heaven and earth to try to get this kid and the main piece he will dangle is DeRozan. The flip side of this is will Lowry stay if Demar is moved?

              Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

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              • #22
                It was absolutely worth it. For our players. Our fans. For basketball in Canada as a whole. Not to mention, there are still so many options available to improve upon this season. And we got another banner to put in the rafters. I mean, we had two banners up there ... and one was for just becoming a team. That's saddening.

                I know some might be thinking that maybe we should have tanked but we honestly shouldn't have. Even if we went full on tank, it would still have not been enough to get a coveted top pick. To put it perspective: Philly went on a historic 26 game losing streak...and STILL did not end the season with the worst record.
                "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                • #23
                  The thing is, we're not a desperate team. And we've got options. If Lowry bolts, then we could make a play for Eric Bledsoe or try to trade for somebody like Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague or somebody like that. PG position is stacked in the NBA these days. In fact, it might be a good thing if Lowry walks, which would give the franchise an excuse to take a step backwards from this over-achieving season and build longer term. Then we could sort of have our cake and eat it too (for the tankers).

                  We're in a nice position, actually. We are a young roster with real upside that is already competitive with the type of culture established that some franchises never can create. We have tons of trade chips that just showcased themselves to the NBA. We're not feeling the pressure of win-now mode, like the Knicks, for example. And we're not like Philly or the Bucks where we're like 10 years away from the 'potential' of contending (and let's see how great that works out for them).

                  If Masai can get what he did for Bargs and Gay, then I'm optimistic with what he can do with the assets he has now, that are all at or near peak value.

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                  • #24
                    Depends if Casey and Lowry are back.


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                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • #25
                      Definitely worth it.

                      Demar's value way up.

                      Jonas/Ross got some playoff experience, and a taste for success (it's addictive).

                      We have a solid, young core, with a ton of financial flexibility in the foreseeable future and all our draft picks plus one.

                      AND I HAD A TON OF FUN.

                      Totally worth it.
                      "Bruno?
                      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                      He's terrible."

                      -Superjudge, 7/23

                      Hope you're wrong.

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                      • #26
                        It was worth it. Nobody has to defend their early views because no one could have seen this coming. But it's a great question to ask. Is 3rd seed and out in a thrilling seven game series really that different from 8th seed and getting swept (the feared outcome)? Not really. In fact, you could argue that it's marginally worse given the difference between the 3rd and 8th seed draft picks. Still, it was worth it.
                        I was a fan of an organic tank. If we wound up trying and being bad, we might as well be really bad. But I had a feeling that a core of demar, jv, lowry, tross etc would be unable to be as bad as the sixers and bucks of the world. So instead, we caught magic in a bottle. Everyone in media wants something to go viral but we really did. The team, the future looks better than (insert high draft pick here) surrounded by players who couldn't string two wins together on their own. Plus, look at all the college stars who were inspired by vince. Maybe the next prodigy was hanging out at Jurassic Park. Tank for 2024!

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                        • #27
                          Without a doubt it was worth it. After losing for so long this was a much needed shot in the arm. We'll likely miss out on any top tier talent but thats such a crap shoot anyway. We got to see what Kyle and DeMar can really do. Young guns like JV and Ross grew by leaps n bounds and just as they may have started to get a lil big in the britches the Playoffs back slapped em both to keep that fire lit.

                          Just to be back in the playoffs at the ACC all these years since the Orlando series was awesome.
                          LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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                          • #28
                            Definitely worth it.

                            Last summer and early in the season the debate was all tank vs. anti-tank....

                            My stance was that tanking is something that just kind of has to happen naturally. For the Raps to tank at a level that would've had them competing for the bottom of the standings, it would've meant making unwise deals just to hopefully lose more, and left the roster full of holes. And I really don't think it would've been very likely to beat out epic tanks like Milwaukee, Utah, Philly, Orlando, and some of the other shit teams in the bottom 10.

                            Now the roster has some holes, but some strengths as well. And the team has a good situation in terms of flexibility and ability to accumulate more assets for another couple years. Meanwhile they've put the team back on the map in terms of exposure. They got lots of positive league-wide exposure. They are building on a winning season, with a young core that can get better while also adding more young pieces.

                            Hard to know if they'll make a leap to true contenders in the next 2-3 years, but I do think what happened this year was better than the "tank" route....which I saw probably ending with us picking closer to 10 than to 1, and poorly managing our assets to even get there.

                            This season was a win.

                            We'll see about next season. Development/success is not always linear, and such improvements do not necessarily mean taking drastic action. Need to keep being patient and smart with our assets, and ready to be opportunistic for the right moves.

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                            • #29
                              RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
                              I was a huge proponent of the tank until it was obvious tanking wasn't going to work considering how deep the top 5 to top 10 of this draft is. Do you guys think losing out on arguably the best draft since 2003 was worth not tanking and going 1 and done in the playoffs?
                              It was well worth it.

                              I'd rather have a one and done team that earned their place and were a pleasure to watch, rather than watch a team try to fail upwards

                              Fuck tanking.

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                              • #30
                                For me, the biggest benefit of the season was being able to evaluate this team in terms of how they perform in the playoffs... a measurement that we hadn't been able to apply to any of these guys before. We know way more about DeRozan, Lowry, JV, Ross, Johnson, the bench, and Casey than we did a month ago. Whatever happens in the offseason, whatever happens during next season, this is now a team that is going to be measured by what happens in the playoffs.

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