Everything Coach

[white men can't jump]

The Market for fringe starting roll playing bigs

comparable players to Patterson (non rookie deals)

Elton Brand 4 million
Brandon Bass 6.9 million
Mirza Teletovic 3.2 million
Taj Gibson 7.5 million
Spencer Hawes 6.6 million
Brandan Wright 5.0 million
JJ Hickson 5.15 million
Charlie V 8.5 million
Marress Speights 3.5 million
Luis Scola 4.5 million
Udonis Haslem 4.3 million
Ersan Ilyasova 7.9 million
Ryan Anderson 8.3 million
Andrea Bargnani 11.8 million
Nick Collison 2.5 million
Glen Davis 6.4 million
Hedo Turkoglu 10.0 million
Thaddeus Young 8.8 million
Channing Frye 6.4 million
Carl Landry 6.5 million
Boris Diaw 4.7 million
Marvin Williams 7.5 million

Average Salary = 6.36 million

A lot of the guys on that list were UFAs though. So that is a very important consideration that needs to be included.

[Scraptor]

DeRozan and 2Pat will workout with Olajuwon too. via wolstat

"Okay Demar now that Rudy is gone, this summer I need you to put on 20lbs of good weight and learn how to play down low."

Seriously though, post moves (while nice) are not near the top of areas in which Demar needs to improve.

Doubtless we'll be getting Val to shoot threes before long.

[special1]

I wouldn't mind hearing from some of the posters who basically called Casey an idiot after EVERY game.....How do you feel about this (seriously)? Do you still trust Masai or do you guys still think you know more than the people who are paid to do this stuff? I've read one post where the poster actually said he's done with the team...lol To that goofball i say GOOD RIDDANCE.

Personally, I think anyone who didn't see this move coming is seriously out of touch with basketball reality. You look at the body of work Casey and his team did this year and there was no doubt in my mind that he would be back.

[The Great One]

Ujiri rocking the Bryan Colangelo high collar shirt style.

[stooley]

"Okay Demar now that Rudy is gone, this summer I need you to put on 20lbs of good weight and learn how to play down low."

Seriously though, post moves (while nice) are not near the top of areas in which Demar needs to improve.

Doubtless we'll be getting Val to shoot threes before long.

I completely disagree.

You look at Kobe, and he made a living from the mid range/post up game, without a 3 point shot.

Those two styles seem to complement each other.

[mcHAPPY]

ebrian made a comment that really shifted my perspective.

This team, with current core, is building to really be competitive in another 2 seasons. What is the point of bringing in another coach for those 2 years and then start looking for your championship calibre coach? Will Casey evolve in to that? I don't think so - but I've been wrong before. He is in his 50s, been coaching for years, head coach for pushing 5 years and yet he still makes some pretty awful decisions.

On the positive, one thing I've never doubted, is his ability to get guys to buy in. That in and of itself is extremely valuable and that is something I probably have undervalued.

What I am really curious about is Casey's perspective with Ross and JV moving forward. When Casey first came in, DD was a third year player and was given no shortage of minutes and opportunity. Ross and JV of course have not been given such leeway. Does that change next year? I sure hope so. Young players are inconsistent at best - even ROY MCW and super soph Bradley Beal - however what worried me most this past season was the lack of confidence both displayed for long stretches. Casey might have been super vocal and supportive but his playing time and sub patterns certainly didn't say such things. With the stability mantra Masai preached today, it would appear the biggest area of improvement from this team is going to be from JV and Ross, you know, that organic growth.

[homphgomph]

I like this and am very happy about this. He clearly had a hold on the players and to see how he could actually turn things around after the trade and build team chemistry like he did says a lot.

Also him and Lowry got a long which is more than you can say about 99% of all coaches ever.

[stooley]

ebrian made a comment that really shifted my perspective.

This team, with current core, is building to really be competitive in another 2 seasons. What is the point of bringing in another coach for those 2 years and then start looking for your championship calibre coach? Will Casey evolve in to that? I don't think so - but I've been wrong before. He is in his 50s, been coaching for years, head coach for pushing 5 years and yet he still makes some pretty awful decisions.

On the positive, one thing I've never doubted, is his ability to get guys to buy in. That in and of itself is extremely valuable and that is something I probably have undervalued.

What I am really curious about is Casey's perspective with Ross and JV moving forward. When Casey first came in, DD was a third year player and was given no shortage of minutes and opportunity. Ross and JV of course have not been given such leeway. Does that change next year? I sure hope so. Young players are inconsistent at best - even ROY MCW and super soph Bradley Beal - however what worried me most this past season was the lack of confidence both displayed for long stretches. Casey might have been super vocal and supportive but his playing time and sub patterns certainly didn't say such things. With the stability mantra Masai preached today, it would appear the biggest area of improvement from this team is going to be from JV and Ross, you know, that organic growth.

I honestly didn't have a problem at all with the minutes they received. They both played inconsistently, but were still starters averaging north of 25 minutes per game.

I doubt they're pulled and are like, "wtf man, I don't understand." I'm sure they're walked through what went wrong, I'm sure they're warned in practice and all about what kind of stuff will get them pulled, etc.

And I mean, Casey's done a pretty damn good job of developing them. Whatever he's doing seems to be working pretty well so far. I wouldn't be too concerned.

[mcHAPPY]

It's not about what you think they are worth. It's about market precedent. Vasquez falls in the 5m to 8m range, Patterson 6m - 8m range. with Vasquez think Jarrett Jack money, with Patterson look at Taj Gibson's contract.

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the contracts offered are far closer to what I posted then a few million less per year

If that happens we are right back in to the Colangelo zone with very little value on the roster.

My motto will officially become "In Masai I fear" if Vasquez and Patterson are making close to $15M between them.

Those are the types of deals that has got Minnesota, even under Flip Saunders, where they currently sit.

[mcHAPPY]

The Market for fringe starting roll playing bigs

comparable players to Patterson (non rookie deals)

Elton Brand 4 million
Brandon Bass 6.9 million
Mirza Teletovic 3.2 million
Taj Gibson 7.5 million
Spencer Hawes 6.6 million
Brandan Wright 5.0 million
JJ Hickson 5.15 million
Charlie V 8.5 million
Marress Speights 3.5 million
Luis Scola 4.5 million
Udonis Haslem 4.3 million
Ersan Ilyasova 7.9 million
Ryan Anderson 8.3 million
Andrea Bargnani 11.8 million
Nick Collison 2.5 million
Glen Davis 6.4 million
Hedo Turkoglu 10.0 million
Thaddeus Young 8.8 million
Channing Frye 6.4 million
Carl Landry 6.5 million
Boris Diaw 4.7 million
Marvin Williams 7.5 million

Average Salary = 6.36 million

Just because a number of other GMs made poor decisions or overpaid, even slightly, doesn't mean Masai has to do the same.

[Puffer]

...On the positive, one thing I've never doubted, is his ability to get guys to buy in. That in and of itself is extremely valuable and that is something I probably have undervalued...

From Smith's story on the extension:

"... but so much of 'coaching' in the NBA these days is delivering a message and getting 15 often diverse personalities with different needs to consistently buy into it."

I think Smith is accurate in this. Casey has managed to do this for a couple of years now. Even Lowry seems to have turned around. Consistency and having the players on the same page as the coach is important. How important, we will see next year, especially f Masai doesn't significantly upgrade the team, which I am not really expecting.

[mcHAPPY]

I honestly didn't have a problem at all with the minutes they received. They both played inconsistently, but were still starters averaging north of 25 minutes per game.

I doubt they're pulled and are like, "wtf man, I don't understand." I'm sure they're walked through what went wrong, I'm sure they're warned in practice and all about what kind of stuff will get them pulled, etc.

And I mean, Casey's done a pretty damn good job of developing them. Whatever he's doing seems to be working pretty well so far. I wouldn't be too concerned.

Look at Bradley Beal's game log for the last 2 years.

When he was healthy, he was given all the minutes he could handle.

I don't know much but that is how I think you develop talent.... and it just so happens that is exactly what was done with DeRozan.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I wouldn't mind hearing from some of the posters who basically called Casey an idiot after EVERY game.....How do you feel about this (seriously)? Do you still trust Masai or do you guys still think you know more than the people who are paid to do this stuff? I've read one post where the poster actually said he's done with the team...lol To that goofball i say GOOD RIDDANCE.

Personally, I think anyone who didn't see this move coming is seriously out of touch with basketball reality. You look at the body of work Casey and his team did this year and there was no doubt in my mind that he would be back.

I called out DC many times, yet I still fully expected him to be re-signed, since he did earn it. Even a coach who met/exceeded expectations placed on him before the season (and/or at the time of signing the contract 3 years ago), can still make some poor decisions along the way. You tend to approach things as black&white issues, but often times the arguments for & against are not mutually exclusive.

I'm happy with MU's negotiating tactic of making the 3rd year a team option. It rewards DC for his work over the past 3 seasons, while making it quite clear that expectations will be higher going forward.

There's not doubt that DC is well respected and had done an excellent job creating a wonderful family atmosphere in the locker room (though some thanks obviously goes to MU for shipping out Bargnani and Gay, who seemed to be divisive forces, for various reasons). It's rare to have players buy-in so well to a system, a coach and a culture; he supports his players and they respect him.

On the flip side, his rotations have often been a mess, his play-calling has seemed average at best (ie: give it to Gay, replaced by give it to Lowry or DeRozan), and his defense (his calling card) slipped hard towards the end of the season and into the playoffs. As somebody who was a pro-tanker to start the season, I completely understand that the talent level on the roster is in serious need of an upgrade, so DC probably deserves to have some slack cut. However, for a team that openly states that making the playoffs is just the start of their expectations going forward, there's no way MU will let him off the hook in the future, for quite possibly costing the team the 1st round series, due to the clusterf*ck on the last play-call (ie: not checking what side the team was getting the ball and then writing up such a stupid play... sorry, 'give it to Kyle' isn't even a play).

One of my biggest criticisms was of his handling of young players, throughout his tenure. I get that approach for a contending team, but not a rebuilding/building/retooling team, where the priority should absolutely be the development of young players. I will admit I was pleasantly surprised at how much emphasis DC put on Valanciunas and Ross during the press conference today, so I'm somewhat more hopeful for the future.

[stooley]

Look at Bradley Beal's game log for the last 2 years.

When he was healthy, he was given all the minutes he could handle.

I don't know much but that is how I think you develop talent.... and it just so happens that is exactly what was done with DeRozan.

Sometimes, but I don't think an extra five minutes per game is that critical.

You look at a guy like Miles Plumlee, killing it in Phoenix who played 5 mpg last year and 25 mpg this year.

I think giving a guy 5 extra minutes per night to work through a mistake and pulling them to tell them what went wrong, before putting them back out are different but equivalent methods of developing a player.

If you've got an hour of practice per day, does it matter if you spend 45 practicing, and 15 being taught, or 40 practicing and 20 being taught? *or does it matter more who's doing the teaching and who's doing the practicing?

[Scraptor]

I completely disagree.

You look at Kobe, and he made a living from the mid range/post up game, without a 3 point shot.

Those two styles seem to complement each other.

Well we sent down Rudy Gay (and Austin Daye) down there last year so I'm not going to hold my breath. Plus it just sounds like a recipe for more iso-ball.

But I guess if anyone can make it work it's Demar.