Demar for draft pick poll - don't freak out, read first

[DanH]

DeMar has a 14M cap hold if he opts out.

It's still possible to have enough room for Durant even with that, although a lot of people here are trying to pretend that it isn't.

I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible. Just listing what would need to happen for it to be the case, and it involves almost completely gutting the team.

[imanshumpert]

I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible. Just listing what would need to happen for it to be the case, and it involves almost completely gutting the team.

No it doesn't. You could have Lowry, Ross, JV, DD and draft picks on the roster. That's not gutting the team if our core is still intact.

[Mr.Z]

Tough crowd....lol Honestly, it was just a lil fun i was poking. I really didn't expect it to piss you off so much. Especially considering that it wasn't even directed at you.

... It was directed directly at him lol

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Lowry said he's big on winning. Trading away the team's all-star for two role players and an unknown quantity will not send a "winning" message to him. Remember that NBA players are not general managers. Even if the #11 pick is a player with the potential to be better than DeRozan, why would Lowry agree to sit around and waste his prime waiting for that guy to develop?

I'm not having my cake and eating it too, you are. DeRozan is an all-star. #11 picks according to 82games have a 15% chance of becoming a star, and 23.3% make at least 1 all-star game in their careers. Yes this draft is supposed to be stronger than the average one (although that remains to be seen), but either way I don't like those odds. Comparing #9 to #11 doesn't make any fucking sense because DeRozan is significantly better than the average #9 pick.

I guess the difference then, is that I don't feel losing DeRozan (especially for a return at least as good as the Denver idea floated by another poster) would have as detrimental an impact on the team's ability to win as you do. Agree to disagree.

I understand that DeRozan is a good player, but I feel you're undervaluing the quality of player likely to be available @ #11 in the 2014 draft (not to mention almost completely ignoring the quality of rotation players that both Mozgov and Chandler are). Even in your reply, you continue to quote historic stats, rather than actually considering which prospects Toronto might pick in the #11 slot. If #11 in 2014 is scouted as the equivalent to the average #8 pick historically, as an example (given the strength and depth of this year's draft class, I think it's a fair assumption), then your purely statistical argument is completely irrelevant.

Basing your argument purely on historic averages, is fundamentally flawed in many ways:
1. This year's draft class is better/deeper than an average draft class (when is #11 not #11?)
2. With MU & Weltman evaluating talent, I think the Raptors should be considered above average drafters
3. "Star Player" is quite subjective and "at least 1 all-star appearance" is hardly the be-all-and-end-all of players/talent evaluation. Again, your incessant defense of DeRozan makes it seem like we're considering trading a true superstar like LBJ or KD for fringe NBA players, which is so not the case.

[imanshumpert]

I guess the difference then, is that I don't feel losing DeRozan (especially for a return at least as good as the Denver idea floated by another poster) would have as detrimental an impact on the team's ability to win as you do. Agree to disagree.

You don't get it. It doesn't matter whether WE feel losing DeRozan would have a detrimental impact on the team's ability to win. All that matters is whether Lowry does, and that is obviously the case. If we trade DeRozan for picks and bench players, Lowry is gone. Period.

I understand that DeRozan is a good player, but I feel you're undervaluing the quality of player likely to be available @ #11 in the 2014 draft (not to mention almost completely ignoring the quality of rotation players that both Mozgov and Chandler are). Even in your reply, you continue to quote historic stats, rather than actually considering which prospects Toronto might pick in the #11 slot. If #11 in 2014 is scouted as the equivalent to the average #8 pick historically, as an example (given the strength and depth of this year's draft class, I think it's a fair assumption), then your purely statistical argument is completely irrelevant.

I'm not undervaluing anything for starters. And with regards to the bold, actually you're the one who is making an irrelevant argument. Even if the 11th pick in this draft had as much value as the SIXTH pick in a normal draft, there is still only a 20% chance of that player ever making the all-star team.

[stooley]

... It was directed directly at him lol

No it wasn't.

I'm not undervaluing anything for starters. And with regards to the bold, actually you're the one who is making an irrelevant argument. Even if the 11th pick in this draft had as much value as the SIXTH pick in a normal draft, there is still only a 20% chance of that player ever making the all-star team.

Please stop quoting those numbers. It's an interesting study but it's ridiculous to use it as gospel. It really, really is.

with #11, we could get:

Gary Harris
Nik Stauskas
Tyler Ennis
Potentially one of Gordon/Vonleh/Randle Smart

Please, bring those guys up. Not that study. You're using it the wrong way.

[imanshumpert]

No it wasn't.



Please stop quoting those numbers. It's an interesting study but it's ridiculous to use it as gospel. It really, really is.

with #11, we could get:

Gary Harris
Nik Stauskas
Tyler Ennis
Potentially one of Gordon/Vonleh/Randle Smart

Please, bring those guys up. Not that study. You're using it the wrong way.

Ok sure we could get those guys. What are the chances of any of them being better than DeRozan?

[Mr.Z]

No it wasn't.

He quoted WMCJ and replied with the European/African comment. Who else would he have directed it at? lol

[stooley]

Ok sure we could get those guys. What are the chances of any of them being better than DeRozan?

Gary Harris, I think, has just as much potential. He's a hard working, two way player, who otherwise is very comparable to Derozan coming out of the NCAA, but with better defense. I think he's got a slightly higher ceiilng, but whether or not he'll realize his potential as well as Demar is obviously very tough to say.

Nik Stauskas would bring a different flavour. He'll probably be pretty equivalent to DD on the defensive end. He's got the range and ballhandling that DD sorely lacks, although is less versatile on the offensive end at this point in time.

Tyler Ennis, I think, will be the best PG to come out of this draft. I think all the focus on Exum and Smart and their athleticism has kind of let Ennis sneak under the radar. He's not the best fit on this team though, so for that reason I'm not sure I'd take him.

Or, with the #11 and #20, we can probably move up to 7/8. Where you can get a HIGHLY rated PF prospect while rounding out your roster.

I think what these moves do is they push back our window of contention by a couple years while maintaining a culture of hard work and winning by rounding out our roster.

That trade would tempt me, and I could go either way on it. I'm not sure our GM would make it, but I have to think he'd at least give it some thought.

[stooley]

He quoted WMCJ and replied with the European/African comment. Who else would he have directed it at? lol

the one before that dude, that set him off. who cares anyways, didn't have to bring it up.

[Mr.Z]

the one before that dude, that set him off. who cares anyways, didn't have to bring it up.

Yep, you're right.

Let the DeMar battles recommence.

[special1]

Yep, you're right.

Let the DeMar battles recommence.

You just love the drama.... smh

[007]

Yep, you're right.

Let the DeMar battles recommence.

Always seem to be a lot of those...

[yabadabayolo]

Always seem to be a lot of those...

Yea the theme here is kinda like someone mentions demars name in something, 20 people try to disapprove that and a demar argument begins. Then people start to insult each other on every damn thread chill we are all raptors republic badasses. Take that garbage to realgm

[007]

Yea the theme here is kinda like someone mentions demars name in something, 20 people try to disapprove that and a demar argument begins. Then people start to insult each other on every damn thread chill we are all raptors republic badasses. Take that garbage to realgm

woo!