Rank your top SGs.

[yabadabayolo]

confession time: I have not seen Jamal play all year, except for 1 game in the playoffs.

Wow, c'mon man dudes like a microwave. Scores shitload of points in bunches. Did you see the game where t ross hit 51? Cuz j craw was also tearing it up that game. It was a shooting contest but j stopped shooting in the end and let griffin score. He could have easily scored 51 also that game

[007]

Wow, c'mon man dudes like a microwave. Scores shitload of points in bunches. Did you see the game where t ross hit 51? Cuz j craw was also tearing it up that game. It was a shooting contest but j stopped shooting in the end and let griffin score. He could have easily scored 51 also that game

Did not see the 51 point game, I was taking a science final exam

[yabadabayolo]

Did not see the 51 point game, I was taking a science final exam

Fuck exams man they are always taking place in the worst damn times!

At least you did well right?

[007]

Fuck exams man they are always taking place in the worst damn times!

At least you did well right?

Ya, 92%

[yabadabayolo]

Ya, 92%

Yes at least missing the game was kinda sorta worth it.

[007]

I think the top 5 SGs will be very different in 3 years.

Kobe, Manu and Wade gone.

Harden and Derozan prime, Beal still improving, and probably a couple who are rookies or sophs now.

[Joey]

According to Basketball-Reference, when you sort players who are considered "Guards", who played a significant amount of minutes, you get the following list, (I've included my own eye-filter, and extracted just the SGs);

Rated by WS...
1. James Harden
2. Demar Derozan
3. Wesley Matthews
4. Lance Stephenson
5. Klay Thompson
6. Marco Bellinelli
7. Manu Ginobili
8. Arron Afflalo
9. Jamal Crawford
10. Kevin Martin

Rated by PER:
1. James Harden
2. Manu Ginobili
3. Demar Derozan
4. Jamal Crawford
5. Monta Ellis
6. Kevin Martin
7. Arron Afflalo
8. Nick Young
9. Vince Carter
10. Alec Burks

Compiling these into My Master List, I would say its:
1. James Harden
2. Demar Derozan
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Lance Stephenson
5. Klay Thompson
6. Jamal Crawford
7. Monta Ellis
8. Arron Afflalo
9. Bradley Beal
10. Wesley Matthews

Wade didn't play enough minutes to make my list.
Neither did Kobe.

Expanding on this...

I'd say this list is also relevant to the conversation...

Rated by USG%
1. Demar Derozan
2. James Harden
3. Jamal Crawford
4. Dion Waiters
5. Nick Young
6. Monta Ellis
7. Kevin Martin
8. Manu Ginobili
9. Victor Oladipo
10. Bradley Beal

[e_wheazhy_]

Rank your top SGs.

The raps have a bright future

[Joey]

What does PER mean and how do you get Win Shares?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Great questions...

PER is a metric John Hollinger over at ESPN (now Memphis Grizzlies) came up with to measure overall production on the court... but I'll let him explain it:

The player efficiency rating (PER) is a rating of a player's per-minute productivity.

To generate PER, I created formulas -- outlined in tortuous detail in my book "Pro Basketball Forecast" -- that return a value for each of a player's accomplishments. That includes positive accomplishments such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls.

Two important things to remember about PER are that it's per-minute and is pace-adjusted.

Because it's a per-minute measure, it allows us to compare, say, Steve Blake and Derek Fisher, even though there is a disparity in their minutes played.

I also adjust each player's rating for his team's pace, so that players on a slow-paced team like Detroit aren't penalized just because their team has fewer possessions than a fast-paced team such as Golden State.

Bear in mind that PER is not the final, once-and-for-all evaluation of a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for defensive specialists -- such as Quinton Ross and Jason Collins -- who don't get many blocks or steals.

What PER can do, however, is summarize a player's statistical accomplishments in a single number. That allows us to unify the disparate data on each player we try to track in our heads (e.g., Corey Maggette: free-throw machine, good rebounder, decent shooter, poor passer, etc.) so that we can move on to evaluating what might be missing from the stats.

I set the league average in PER to 15.00 every season.

Among players with at least 500 minutes in 2010-11, the highest rating was LeBron James' 27.34. The lowest was Stephen Graham's 4.41.

Win Shares are a little different, in that they try to Summarize a player contributions in terms of Wins:

Bill James developed his system such that one win is equivalent to three Win Shares. My system deviates from James's system in three key ways:
1.In James's system, one win is equivalent to three Win Shares. In my system, one win is equivalent to one Win Share.
2.James made team Win Shares directly proportional to team wins. In his system, a baseball team that wins 80 games will have exactly 240 Win Shares, a baseball team that wins 90 games will have exactly 270 Win Shares, etc. In my system, a basketball team that wins 50 games will have about 50 Win Shares, give or take.
3.James did not allow for the possibility of negative Win Shares. In his system, the fewest number of Win Shares a player can have is zero. In my system, a player can have negative Win Shares. I justify this by thinking about it in the following way: a player with negative Win Shares was so poor that he essentially took away wins that his teammates had generated.

Go to the following link and read the full Essay they have on them .. its pretty fascinating stuff: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

[MACK11]

TOP 10 this season:

1. James Haren (No D)
2. DeMar DeRozan
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Arron Afflalo
5. Jamal Crawford
6. Klay Thompson
7. Monta Ellis
8. Brad Beal
9. Manu Ginobili
10. Wes Matthews

[Mr.Z]

TOP 10 this season:

1. James Haren (No D)
2. DeMar DeRozan
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Arron Afflalo
5. Jamal Crawford
6. Klay Thompson
7. Monta Ellis
8. Brad Beal
9. Manu Ginobili
10. Wes Matthews

I would put Ellis over Afflalo.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[golden]

Dwyane Wade has to be seriously de-valued at this stage of his career and in the situation he's in. The guy only plays about 2/3rd of the season on a maintenance schedule that's fully optimized to to maintain his 'freshness' for the playoffs.

And when Wade does actually play he's the 2nd and occasionally 3rd option (on nights when Bosh has it going). Essentially a perfect scenario where the deck is totally stacked in his favor to look good.

[feet85]

Dwyane Wade has to be seriously de-valued at this stage of his career and in the situation he's in. The guy only plays about 2/3rd of the season on a maintenance schedule that's fully optimized to to maintain his 'freshness' for the playoffs.

And when Wade does actually play he's the 2nd and occasionally 3rd option (on nights when Bosh has it going). Essentially a perfect scenario where the deck is totally stacked in his favor to look good.

Dwyane Wade is probably the 3rd greatest shooting guard to ever play and you guys are Massively underrating him, if you want to see just how great he is just watch the 2006 finals or even the 2011 finals heck just watch him in the playoffs right now he is making Lebron look like his sidekick

[Joey]

Dwyane Wade is probably the 3rd greatest shooting guard to ever play and you guys are Massively underrating him, if you want to see just how great he is just watch the 2006 finals or even the 2011 finals heck just watch him in the playoffs right now he is making Lebron look like his sidekick

The OP was just for this previous Regular Season though...

[KHD]

Dwyane Wade is probably the 3rd greatest shooting guard to ever play and you guys are Massively underrating him, if you want to see just how great he is just watch the 2006 finals or even the 2011 finals heck just watch him in the playoffs right now he is making Lebron look like his sidekick

2006 finals was an officiating travesty.