"Sell High"

[stooley]

Not worried about DD as a potential fit down the line. Just want to maximize his value. If there's a great return, take it, otherwise I have no issue holding on to him.

[stooley]

Smitchwin's Law in full effect here.

We can win a title with Demar on the roster. It just feels like he's good but not quite good enough to carry us there, so we'd need the kind of amazing luck we've simply never had, in landing a major star.

And the reality is that we don't have that much time. If you think Kevin Durant will leave for a squad that hasn't made the conference finals you're out of your mind. So we have two years, and our roster as it stands has a second round ceiling. It's why I think the time for patience is over. There will be a lot of chaos in the league this summer.... It looks like the Pacers may also be making moves this summer, in addition to the Grizz, the Wolves, the Celtics, etc etc.

Opportunity doesn't knock twice. If we want Durant we've got to start setting the table now.

I don't think we have a 2nd round ceiling. DD/Jonas/Ross/Lowry is gonna be a sick core in 2 years.

[JimiCliff]

Smh.

These players are only considered "clutch" because they've won titles. LeBron was labelled as a choker just 3 years ago.

If Jason Terry, Manu and Ray Allen weren't 2nd, 3rd and 4th bananas on championship teams; nobody would be calling them clutch.

They aren't considered clutch because they've won titles; they're considered clutch because they all made multiples huge plays in high pressure situations that contributed directly to winning titles. There's a difference.

And who knows, maybe one day Derozan will be in the position where he gets to define his legacy by having the chance to make big plays when it matters.

[imanshumpert]

That seems to be very feasible in my mind.

Let me ask you this: what if, during the S&T negotiations, OKC becomes firm in their demand for Derozan. Would you be ok with losing Derozan and bringing in Durant?

I'd be ok with losing pretty much our whole team to get Durant (on a long-term deal obviously lol)... We're talking about the 2nd best player in the league here.

[vino]

Why is it that everyone is so sure we can't win a title with DeRozan on the team?

Why is our ceiling 2nd round fodder just because he's here?

key question. because he does not play D at high level and because of his contract. in the context, selling now (high) could net us a K.Leonard type, cheaper (lots of upside in other words)

[vino]

I don't think we have a 2nd round ceiling. DD/Jonas/Ross/Lowry is gonna be a sick core in 2 years.

you're dreaming. there is Miami (as currently constructed), then there is Indiana and there are the other 4-5 teams in the east... of which we look better due to bias or otherwise. we need more talent, not just internal growth

[Scraptor]

you're dreaming. there is Miami (as currently constructed), then there is Indiana and there are the other 4-5 teams in the east... of which we look better due to bias or otherwise. we need more talent, not just internal growth

Yeah it was a lucky year for us. Lopez, Rose, Horford, Rondo all out. That is an unusual number of all-stars to be out. Chicago's going to add another piece instead of Boozer. Washington will probably get stronger. I could see us slipping to the fifth seed with no moves, and without homecourt I think we'd be in tough.

Val has upside and Ross has shown some elite D but without moves we'll continue to be a jumper-heavy offense and that isn't going to get us very far.

[Heatdreamer]

The window is closing on the bulls in the next 3-4 years. Derek Rose has a double whammy - two surgeries on separate knees. Additionally Noah will be 30 next Feb. in his prime but physically starting to feel the ills of being banged up in almost 10 years of professional during 2014/15 season.
Tom Thibideau's coaching has had a huge impact on the team- positively, however playing defense with great intensity will wear on the team.

[stooley]

you're dreaming. there is Miami (as currently constructed), then there is Indiana and there are the other 4-5 teams in the east... of which we look better due to bias or otherwise. we need more talent, not just internal growth

There's Miami, but they're on the downslope now.

Indiana doesn't worry me AT ALL.

So then we've got the other teams which are kind of projected similar to us right now. I prefer our ownership/management to their's.

So there's MIA in the conference finals the next couple of years, and we've got a pretty realistic shot. So, no, I don't think I'm dreaming in saying that 2nd round isn't our ceiling. We've got a realistic shot at making a conference finals.

[ezz_bee]

The "Reply With Quote" isn't working for me, but this is my response to IMANSHUMPERTS post about people believing we can't be a championship team with Demar.

I think we can absolutely be a championship team with Demar, but I have some serious concerns. Particularly his defense. It is REALLY REALLY hard to get to the finals when you have a starter who plays a lot of minutes and has a weakness that teams can exploit. In the playoffs other teams will attack Demar defensively. He needs to be surrounded by other players who can make up for that defensive weakness.

IF JV improves his defense significantly, and Amir keeps his at the current level, and the Raps have a SF that can defend big SFs (maybe Ross, ideally, a Deng/Landry w/ jumpshot) then it's certainly possible. I just think that BECAUSE he has deficiencies, but went to the all-star game and has two seasons left at 9.5, I think he is going to have a lot of value around the league. Any GM that trades for him will get to say to the fan base "When you have opportunity to get your hands on a 25 year old all-star making only 9.5 million, you just can't pass that up."

So it's not that you can't make the finals with Demar, it's that you might get so much for him that it will be EASIER to make to the finals with the current core PLUS the haul you get from a demar trade.

I just think that Demar's value is going to be over inflated (I don't see him as a prennial all-nba player) and IF a team wants to PAY that overinflated value, we should probably take it.

The odds of us getting Durant are VERY slim, so although we SHOULD try to get him, and in fact, if we get a lot of young assets from a Demar trade, that make an S&T for Durant easier.

If I'm Masai, more than any other player, I want to know how the market values Demar. If there's an idiot GM out there, I'd like to take him to the cleaners.

EDIT: I think we can make the finals with Demar I just don't like the odds for that team and would like to improve them, Demar might be the asset necessary.

[imanshumpert]

In terms of "sell-high"

Couldn't we potentially re-sign Lowry and trade him as part of a deal for Kyrie Irving next season? The Cavs aren't interested in giving him the max, and having an arguably better-right-now, locked in contractually, PG in his prime might actually appeal to them. For people talking about raising the ceiling of the team, that might actually be an opportunity we could capitalize on.

We'd have a full season to evaluate Kyrie and then we can either give him the max or let the market dictate his price (the max lol).

Obviously the Cavs have to actually want to move Kyrie for Lowry for anything like this to be possible, but it is something to think about.

[007]

Why would we take Kyrie for one year then give him the max, rather than (hopefully) having Lowry around for around 4 years at a non max?

Also, Lowry plays defence.

[yabadabayolo]

Yeah it was a lucky year for us. Lopez, Rose, Horford, Rondo all out. That is an unusual number of all-stars to be out. Chicago's going to add another piece instead of Boozer. Washington will probably get stronger. I could see us slipping to the fifth seed with no moves, and without homecourt I think we'd be in tough.

Val has upside and Ross has shown some elite D but without moves we'll continue to be a jumper-heavy offense and that isn't going to get us very far.

Wtf

How is it lucky, the nets sucked with Lopez they only made the playoffs because Pearce began playing the 4. Unfortunately rose looks like he is no longer a MVP type player because of his injures. Atlanta isn't that much better with horfard but they are the only team our of the ones you listed that could actually become better. And rondo is fucking overrated, he will never carry a team to the finals. If he has like 3 other futures hall if farmers to play next to him, he will look amazing again.

[yabadabayolo]

My thing has always been, if you go through the list of NBA champs + legit title contenders, it's rare that a player of Derozan's mould (non-superstar [as in Jordan/Kobe level], high usage, high scoring, average(ish)-defending, highly paid wing) is involved. That type of player hasn't traditionally been present in the architecture of the best teams. Rip Hamilton is the only example that I can come up with, and has been stated ad nauseam, those Detroit teams were very atypical, and maybe non-repeatable.

The best argument against this line of thinking, I believe, is that NBA history (involving something resembling the current salary-cap landscape) is very short, so the existing sample size is too small to be drawing universal conclusions from it.

Find me another 'highly paid wing' that made the Allstate team. You do realize he only made 9.5 mill. That's a bargain deal

You've got to understand, he's making 2nd/3rd option player money but playing as a 1st option. He ISNT highly paid

[007]

Lol, Allstate team.