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  • #31
    RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    I understand that but I personally don't feel a 5 year projects fits the current team which is clearly trying to compete. There were a lot of good players that were dropping that they passed on to reach for a guy who barely plays in a league in Brazil let alone the NBA because he has a big wingspan and is athletic over multiple guys that can contribute right now and still have good upside going down the road. It feels like a massive reach like they were zeroed in on those two guys and didn't really scout/care about anyone else.

    They worked out 60 players. So that bolded point is just flat out wrong
    Ball Don't Lie

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    • #32
      iblastoff wrote: View Post
      Too bad sobeys is losing a ton of money and closing a bunch of stores.
      I thought Longo's was too obscure a brand for the metaphor. Your point may be more telling. Who knows if the plan worksout?

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      • #33
        Seems a silly question in that context. The draft should never be used as a marker for direction if the team. If you have a shot at a high potential piece, you draft that piece. If not, you take the best role player you can find. But that's true whether you are the Heat or the 76ers.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #34
          DanH wrote: View Post
          Seems a silly question in that context. The draft should never be used as a marker for direction if the team. If you have a shot at a high potential piece, you draft that piece. If not, you take the best role player you can find. But that's true whether you are the Heat or the 76ers.
          30% of RRepublicans see Bruno as a bad off the board pick(they should read Aldridge or CBSSports reports). Moreover hunting Lowry's replacement mid courtship is mixed signals. Add that to a capped out team: the question seems begged.

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          • #35
            Raptor Jesus wrote: View Post
            30% of RRepublicans see Bruno as a bad off the board pick(they should read Aldridge or CBSSports reports). Moreover hunting Lowry's replacement mid courtship is mixed signals. Add that to a capped out team: the question seems begged.
            Well if the question seems begged, then you misunderstand the point of the draft.

            You want a role player? Sign one. They are a dime a dozen.

            You want a player that can contribute right away? Sign one. The draft won't address this, not outside the lotto.

            30% of RRepublicans are wrong, but that aside, an off the board pick versus an on the board pick would have little to no consequence for this season, and possibly even for next season. Non-lotto draft picks simply will not move the needle in their first year or two. Even if they contribute, it will be as a backup, as the 10th or 11th most important piece on the team.

            Hunting Lowry's replacement mid-courtship is called preparing for an unrestricted free agent to potentially leave the team. It's called common sense. It would be moronic not to consider that scenario and prepare for it, no matter the direction of the team.

            I see nothing in your post that implies any sort of questionable direction.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • #36
              DanH wrote: View Post
              Well if the question seems begged, then you misunderstand the point of the draft.

              You want a role player? Sign one. They are a dime a dozen.

              You want a player that can contribute right away? Sign one. The draft won't address this, not outside the lotto.

              30% of RRepublicans are wrong, but that aside, an off the board pick versus an on the board pick would have little to no consequence for this season, and possibly even for next season. Non-lotto draft picks simply will not move the needle in their first year or two. Even if they contribute, it will be as a backup, as the 10th or 11th most important piece on the team.

              Hunting Lowry's replacement mid-courtship is called preparing for an unrestricted free agent to potentially leave the team. It's called common sense. It would be moronic not to consider that scenario and prepare for it, no matter the direction of the team.

              I see nothing in your post that implies any sort of questionable direction.
              This. Why the hell are people upset that we didn't draft a career role player at #20?



              Listen to Jalen Rose's explanation at 4:28. We're not a team that's known for signing stars in free agency (plus we had no cap room for one this year anyway)... we've been hella good at signing role players though. That's why in the draft we need to go for potential and upside to have a shot at getting star players.

              Every star player that's ever played for Toronto has been drafted, and all of them were high upside, athletic, long players (with the exception of Lowry who we traded a draft pick for).

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              • #37
                This is a bit of a weird thread. I think the "direction" is pretty clear and has been well explained here, a couple of my fellow RR members just seem to refuse to see it. It's not even about agreeing/disagreeing with it, just not seeing at all is a little mind boggling to me. MU's gotten nothing but praise from virtually every corner since starting here, has made moves that exceeded almost all our expectations on several occasions, how you can write the process off at this very early point as "directionless" and "treadmill" is beyond me. Those terms have never been more ill-fitting of the Toronto Raptors.

                This thing is just getting started. Let's see where it goes.
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • #38
                  I think the direction is obvious.

                  Masai Ujiri
                  On the negative reaction to the pick: “Honestly, I don’t do it for reactions of anybody. I don’t know. I shouldn’t say this, but I don’t care. We’re in a business where I can’t react to anything, I just have to maybe do my job and you hope that the best comes out of it. Yeah, is it a gamble? Yes. But I was asking someone, do we remember who the 20th picks of the last 10 drafts are?”

                  http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/...os-draft-pick/
                  This is no Rafael Araujo or Andrea Bargnani situation. The kid has talent and he has heart. While that might not be enough, in the end, it just might be and Toronto, unlike some of the NBA’s golden franchises, needs to take chances like this every once in a while in order to meet the eventual goal of becoming a contender.

                  http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/201...what-hes-doing
                  “There’s none. I don’t think there’s any risk,” Ujiri said. “I’ll announce it here: We’re going to go through hard times. You have to expect them. We’re going to bump heads. Our job is to figure it out and move forward. The players, I think, understand that, and that’s why you want to always get guys who put basketball first and compete. Those are the kind of guys that we have. For me, that taste in your mouth is a little bitter, how we lost. … They come back hungry. These guys are just a phenomenal group of guys that want to work and go out and compete. When that time comes, we’ll deal with it. For me, the overall culture is what you want to create.”

                  http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/...e-of-cohesion/
                  "You come in and start to preach something different," Ujiri said. "You have to start instilling some of the things you believe in. I believe in passion, I believe in honesty, I believe in working hard and giving it your best. I don't believe in excuses."

                  http://www.cbc.ca/television/posts/t...-teams-culture
                  The other plea that Ujiri and Casey make incessantly is for patience — “We are a work in progress” is the coach’s daily mantra — and it’s another reason the Heat and Spurs have been so successful. Miami’s in the NBA final for the fourth straight time — that’s not something likely to ever happen with the Raptors — but they are insistent on making each season about building rather than expecting.

                  Franchises would be wise to follow that lead, to expect nothing because of past success — or failure. The Raptors know that when the next season starts, the surprising success of last season will mean little, it is about continuing the process.

                  “If you’re doing the process the right way, eventually the result will hopefully take care of itself but that’s not guaranteed. So the only thing you can focus on is the now,” said Spoelstra.

                  “You have to go through the process of building habits and then go through the process of competition and figuring it out. Then when it’s all said and done, you know, everybody can look back on it and see what the result was.”

                  http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...to_follow.html
                  My .02:
                  Look at the transactions that have taken place under Masai's watch. If you can't see the trend then me spelling it out is not going to do much to change one's mind.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Jamshid wrote: View Post
                    ...So Basically, Raptors will be a team which will win 40-50 games a season and will get eliminated in 2nd rounds year after year.
                    Well Thank God.

                    Now that it is all laid out so nicely for me I can go back to doing more productive things. One question though. With this kind of almost omnipotent foresight, how come you are on this forum posting? Or following the Raptors? Is it that you don't mind paying the price in suffering to save all the rest of us...warning us of the unending, bleak mediocre existence to come? Or is it that you are just full of yourself and are pulling predictions out of your ass? Inquiring minds want to know.

                    (PS. Who is your source in Masai's office that fed you details of his lack of plan last year and his formula for the next era of crapitude? One of the assistant coaches? Or someone else).

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I think the direction is obvious; keep building. I think the draft was a sign of two things:
                      (1) Masai has confidence in his job security
                      (2) Masai is willing to shoot for the fences

                      It's not like if we drafted a decent shooter this team turns into a contender. We still lost in the first round in a year that it was unexpected to even make the playoffs. I can see it now -- if we fall to the 6th or 7th seed, there will be people here thinking it's time to blow up the team.

                      Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                      In 4 years we'll have a 28 year old Derozan, a 27 year old Ross, a 26 year old Valanciunas, a 29 year old Patterson, a 22 year old Bruno, a 25 year old Bebe. Add to that 3 first round picks in the next two years and all our cap space and our prime is in about 4 years.

                      Plus a 32 year old Lowry should still be able to play. 31 year old Vasquez. 31 year old Amir.
                      It's a nice plan until you look at the potential/future salaries. In 4 years DeRozan, JV, Ross and Amir will all have new contracts. Likely we won't be able to afford all 4 of them. Given current rate of development I think you can make some fair estimations:

                      Lowry: $12M
                      DeRozan: $14-15M
                      Caboclo: $2M
                      Valanciunas: $8-9M
                      Noguira: $2M
                      Ross: $7M
                      Vasquez: $7M
                      Johnson: $10M
                      Patterson: $6M
                      3 more first round picks: $5M total

                      That's already $73-75M. Even if you consider an improving NBA economy, I highly doubt the salary cap will get that high in 4 years. Right now we have 6-8 guys who are all very capable but no significant standouts. Ideally you want a bit of top-heaviness, like 2-3 guys who are extremely good, and then a solid group rounding out the roster. My vision would be that in 4 years a number of the above players will be packaged off to create the top-heaviness that is needed to really contend.
                      your pal,
                      ebrian

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                      • #41
                        Waaaaahhhh!!!! The GM didn't draft the guy I wanted! This team has no direction!

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                        • #42
                          ebrian wrote: View Post
                          Lowry: $12M
                          DeRozan: $14-15M
                          Caboclo: $2M
                          Valanciunas: $8-9M
                          Noguira: $2M
                          Ross: $7M
                          Vasquez: $7M
                          Johnson: $10M
                          Patterson: $6M
                          3 more first round picks: $5M total

                          That's already $73-75M.
                          No chance in hell Amir Johnson's given 10M and Greivis is given 7M. Amir for about 7M and Greivis for about 4.5-5M.

                          I just saved you about 5M so it is realistic we keep all our guys, especially since 75M isn't luxury tax and we'll have bird rights on everyone.

                          I agree about packaging a couple guys, but only if it makes us a clear cut contender.

                          I agree with everything else you said about Masai.

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                          • #43
                            ebrian wrote: View Post
                            I think the direction is obvious; keep building. I think the draft was a sign of two things:
                            (1) Masai has confidence in his job security
                            (2) Masai is willing to shoot for the fences

                            It's not like if we drafted a decent shooter this team turns into a contender. We still lost in the first round in a year that it was unexpected to even make the playoffs. I can see it now -- if we fall to the 6th or 7th seed, there will be people here thinking it's time to blow up the team.



                            It's a nice plan until you look at the potential/future salaries. In 4 years DeRozan, JV, Ross and Amir will all have new contracts. Likely we won't be able to afford all 4 of them. Given current rate of development I think you can make some fair estimations:

                            Lowry: $12M
                            DeRozan: $14-15M
                            Caboclo: $2M
                            Valanciunas: $8-9M
                            Noguira: $2M
                            Ross: $7M
                            Vasquez: $7M
                            Johnson: $10M
                            Patterson: $6M
                            3 more first round picks: $5M total

                            That's already $73-75M. Even if you consider an improving NBA economy, I highly doubt the salary cap will get that high in 4 years. Right now we have 6-8 guys who are all very capable but no significant standouts. Ideally you want a bit of top-heaviness, like 2-3 guys who are extremely good, and then a solid group rounding out the roster. My vision would be that in 4 years a number of the above players will be packaged off to create the top-heaviness that is needed to really contend.
                            Over the course of last year to summer 2015, the cap is going from 58.7M to 63.2M to 66.5M, based on projections. Last year's projections has this year's cap at 61M instead of 63.2M. So we may outpace those numbers. But even taking them as is, projecting that forward to 4 years from now suggests a cap of 76.4M. Which leaves another 17M to add before hitting the tax. Hopefully in the form of a max free agent we sign next summer.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • #44
                              imanshumpert wrote: View Post
                              Waaaaahhhh!!!! The GM didn't draft the guy I wanted! This team has no direction!
                              LOL I swear OP's related to Rodney Hood. The guy's not good at all

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                              • #45
                                That's ridiculous. Amir is already making $7M this year. And by all accounts I don't think you'll find a single person here who doesn't agree that he is underpaid for what he does. I was being conservative when I wrote that he'd be earning $10M, 4 years from now.
                                your pal,
                                ebrian

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