S.R. wrote:
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DeMar DeRozan or Klay Thompson - Who you got?
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chico wrote: View PostActually, you were the one comparing Klay's defense with DeMar's defense, based on no evidence beyond who he guarded, with no reference to actual basketball results to illustrate his abilities, so I was looking for something relevant to "sink in", and thought you may have it. I asked. You gave nothing but smart-ass. That sunk in quickly!
I also pointed out that the generalized "DD always guards the weakest link" in your "let that sink in" statement, isn't quite true, as DeMar guarded the opposition's strongest link, in the same first round, while also carrying the load of being his team's strongest offensive link in the series, unlike Klay's catch and shoot responsibilities. How many guys in the league can cover the opposition's top dog very well, while also being the top dog on their own team? Which brings up the fact that "questionable AS SG on the down slope of his career" JJ also caused LeBron and Miami problems as well, as he performed as well as he did vs the Raps.
Just saying. Your argument I responded to is lacking in both accuracy and substance. to be worth letting sink in.
You think they are devising defensive schemes to stop Matt Barnes so they put Thompson on Chris Paul? C'mon.
As for Toronto's top dog, that is Lowry.
As for DeRozan's results guarding JJ, I recall a brutal thrashing at DD's expense.
As for LeBron, I thought we were talking Thompson and DeRozan?
SUmmary:
DeRozan versus Thompson on O depends on your roster.
DeRozan versus Thompson on D is Thompson.
However, I'm done placing limitations on DeRozan. I would say the odds favour him continuing to improve on defense as he has shown flashes.
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chico wrote: View PostNo point to discussing with a strawman who just graduated nursery school and thinks he's a big boy now. Carry on. Have a nice day.
There's lots of content out there that says the Warriors wouldn't budge on Thompson and his defensive abilities had a huge part to do with that.
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mcHAPPY wrote: View PostWhat evidence does one need except that an NBA coaching staff feels confident in playing Thompson on the All-NBA 1st team PG in Chris Paul in the playoffs?
You think they are devising defensive schemes to stop Matt Barnes so they put Thompson on Chris Paul? C'mon.
As for Toronto's top dog, that is Lowry.
As for DeRozan's results guarding JJ, I recall a brutal thrashing at DD's expense.
As for LeBron, I thought we were talking Thompson and DeRozan?
SUmmary:
DeRozan versus Thompson on O depends on your roster.
DeRozan versus Thompson on D is Thompson.
However, I'm done placing limitations on DeRozan. I would say the odds favour him continuing to improve on defense as he has shown flashes.
Ideally it's Ross who's going to play a Thompson-like role for the Raps. He definitely has the physical tools to do it, we'll see how far he progresses."We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard
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mcHAPPY wrote: View PostWhat evidence does one need except that an NBA coaching staff feels confident in playing Thompson on the All-NBA 1st team PG in Chris Paul in the playoffs?
You think they are devising defensive schemes to stop Matt Barnes so they put Thompson on Chris Paul? C'mon.
As for Toronto's top dog, that is Lowry.
As for DeRozan's results guarding JJ, I recall a brutal thrashing at DD's expense.
As for LeBron, I thought we were talking Thompson and DeRozan?
SUmmary:
DeRozan versus Thompson on O depends on your roster.
DeRozan versus Thompson on D is Thompson.
However, I'm done placing limitations on DeRozan. I would say the odds favour him continuing to improve on defense as he has shown flashes.
I was looking for actual results info. Something more than anecdotal evidence, which one could easily argue is due more to the alternative of putting Curry on CP. I do know the following facts of Chris Paul/Klay Thompson in that series:
- despite being guarded by the great defender, 7" taller than him, CP took more shots than season avg., at same FG%, took way more 3P attempts than season avg., with a much higher %
- while Klay shot worse, including 3p%, than season averages, while being guarded by 3" shorter Reddick.
Klay doesn't seemed to have contained Chris Paul at all, despite being a better option than Curry.
"As for Toronto's top dog, that is Lowry."
The subject you brought up was performances in the playoffs. Looking at basic numbers for scoring responsibility, which was the subject of "top dog", it's not hard to argue that they were 1A & 1B, as defenses forced them to take turns, with Lowry having 4 20+ games, to DeMar's 5 20+ games, while taking more shots overall, and many more FTs. Whatever the seamntics of "top dog" one goes with, those numbers are close enough to make the point of the energy needed address his responsibilities on offense, vs Klay's catch-and-shoot (to the tune of 75% assisted FGs) responsibilities on offense
"As for DeRozan's results guarding JJ, I recall a brutal thrashing at DD's expense."
And my question was did Klay fair any better with his defense, while carrying much less responsibility on offense. The numbers say CP scored more, much more efficiently, than season average, so if DeMar was thrashed, one could say the same about Klay's defense having little effect against CP, as in even less than average.
"As for LeBron, I thought we were talking Thompson and DeRozan?"
Yes we were/are. Sorry you missed the point of bringing up LeBron and Miami as evidence that JJ represented something more that a simplified "questionable AS SG on the down slope of his career" in the playoffs. Evidense shows Klay had little effect (less than avg) on CP's productivity, but JJ even gave LeBron fits. I repeat, it was to counter your dismissing of JJ as a force.
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Before I get into this I must state that I really like Klay Thompson as a basketball player. He's a REALLY good shooter. I actually watched a lot of Golden State games over the last few years because i'm a Steph Curry fan since he was in College.
It's also no secret that i'm a pretty big fan of Demar (I've been called a Demar fanboy a few times over the last few years by some posters).
Having said all that......I think Demar is a much better player at this point in their careers. Demar is about 6 months older than Klay and has already shown that he can lead a team and was an all-star last year. The only clear advantage Klay has over Demar is shooting 3's. The defense debate is exactly that....debatable (look at their DRTG ratings). I think Demar will continue to improve in all areas so i'm expecting to see a better defender this year.
If you check out their advanced stats from last year - Demar had better numbers in almost every category (PER, PPG, Assists, Rebounding, Free throw attempts, Free throw makes, Free throw percentage, Steals, WS, ORTG.) There are no signs that he's slowing down either. He's starting to make a believer out of his toughest critics on RR.
Obviously it comes down to someone's personal preference. Some people are obsessed with "3 and D." Some people just don't like Demar's game for whatever reason so they would pick Klay or call it a toss up.
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chico wrote: View Post"What evidence does one need except that an NBA coaching staff feels confident in playing Thompson on the All-NBA 1st team PG in Chris Paul in the playoffs?"
I was looking for actual results info. Something more than anecdotal evidence, which one could easily argue is due more to the alternative of putting Curry on CP. I do know the following facts of Chris Paul/Klay Thompson in that series:
- despite being guarded by the great defender, 7" taller than him, CP took more shots than season avg., at same FG%, took way more 3P attempts than season avg., with a much higher %
- while Klay shot worse, including 3p%, than season averages, while being guarded by 3" shorter Reddick.
Klay doesn't seemed to have contained Chris Paul at all, despite being a better option than Curry.
"As for Toronto's top dog, that is Lowry."
The subject you brought up was performances in the playoffs. Looking at basic numbers for scoring responsibility, which was the subject of "top dog", it's not hard to argue that they were 1A & 1B, as defenses forced them to take turns, with Lowry having 4 20+ games, to DeMar's 5 20+ games, while taking more shots overall, and many more FTs. Whatever the seamntics of "top dog" one goes with, those numbers are close enough to make the point of the energy needed address his responsibilities on offense, vs Klay's catch-and-shoot (to the tune of 75% assisted FGs) responsibilities on offense
"As for DeRozan's results guarding JJ, I recall a brutal thrashing at DD's expense."
And my question was did Klay fair any better with his defense, while carrying much less responsibility on offense. The numbers say CP scored more, much more efficiently, than season average, so if DeMar was thrashed, one could say the same about Klay's defense having little effect against CP, as in even less than average.
"As for LeBron, I thought we were talking Thompson and DeRozan?"
Yes we were/are. Sorry you missed the point of bringing up LeBron and Miami as evidence that JJ represented something more that a simplified "questionable AS SG on the down slope of his career" in the playoffs. Evidense shows Klay had little effect (less than avg) on CP's productivity, but JJ even gave LeBron fits. I repeat, it was to counter your dismissing of JJ as a force.
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I respectfully bow out of discussion because I have come to realize I have no clue what I am talking about and you're opinions are clearly much superior to my own.
Good day, p00ka.
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mcHAPPY wrote: View PostYou are so clearly correct on all matters here.
I respectfully bow out of discussion because I have come to realize I have no clue what I am talking about and you're opinions are clearly much superior to my own.
Good day, p00ka.
lol, whoever this pOOka dude was, I've got some appreciation for him if this is the kind of exchanges you had with him/her
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chico wrote: View PostAre you serious? Sorry, I thought I was discussing the topic with a grown up that could handle challenges.
lol, whoever this pOOka dude was, I've got some appreciation for him if this is the kind of exchanges you had with him/her
LMAO good one"Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed
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chico wrote: View Post
lol, whoever this pOOka dude was, I've got some appreciation for him if this is the kind of exchanges you had with him/herLast edited by Fully; Wed Aug 13, 2014, 07:32 AM.
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p00ka was a clown. Multipaul is the gold standard. Just like Kayne is a self-proclaimed genius, but also an actual genius, multipaul was the greatest troll because deep down inside he actually believed his own stuff, or made me believe that he believed it, either way, I hope he's still posting on Knick boards. LONG LIVE KING BARGS!!!"They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014
"I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
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