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  • Casey's Rotations...

    I haven't seen anything in the forums, but I've noticed criticism of Casey's rotations by RR writers (especially his "hockey style substitutions", I'm not sure what podcast it was but I think Zarar, posited that it was to "create chemistry in the second unit" the response by the other podcaster, "Why would Casey want to create chemistry in the second unit?" I think this is a very shorted sighted perspective. Here's my argument.

    1) If you are a team that is serious about going deep in the playoffs, then purpose of the regular season has to be about preparing your team for the playoffs. Winning and seeding matters a lot,

    BECAUSE when you are forced to play a 7 game series against the same team, they are going to take advantage of any weakness they can find..

    AND by the time the playoffs come around you don't have time to overhaul your offense or defense (I've noticed more than one current and/or former NBA coach mention something to this effect).

    VERSATILITY MATTERS: The more ways your team can play, the harder it is for other teams to game plan against you, and the easier it is game plan against them. A good is example is the Spurs use of Matt Bonner in the Western Conference Finals. He's pretty far down their depth chart and yet Pop was able to insert him into the starting line up against OKC (in order to bring Ibaka away from the basket and hurt the Thunder's help defense). It worked.

    2) The Raptors are finally a team that should be serious about going deep in the playoffs (I hope the team sees anything other than a 1 or 2 seed, and a Conference Finals appearance as a wasted opportunity/failure.

    THEREFORE: The Raptors need to start preparing for the playoffs now. It's not about looking ahead, it's about preparing for a goal. Roster versatility is crucial if you want to go deep in the playoffs especially so, if you are facing a team that has more talent.

    THE COUNTER-ARGUMENT:

    1) Casey's weird rotations jeopardize wins and any gains in playoff performance from versatility might be more than lost by not having home court advantage.

    2) Weird rotations can engender resentment among starters who have their minutes cut.

    RESPONSE:

    1) Raptors are a very deep team, with little roster turnover from last year. They can afford to get funky with their rotations and still win games.

    2) Raptors have leadership from three key players Lowry/Derozan/Amir, and everyone seems to be focused on the big picture (winning in the post-season) as long as it is communicated to players by coaches, with an understanding that it is being done to make the team better in the playoffs, I'm pretty sure everyone (with the possible exception of James Johnson, although he seems okay with his role thus far) is willing to be on board. Plus you don't need to cut players minutes a lot, or even every game. This is also offset by the theory spurs theory that by limiting the minutes of your starters you reduce the likelihood that players are injured come playoff time.


    CONCLUSION: Casey can and should continue to be creative with rotations. Yes, you need to try to do it in a way that doesn't offend people if their minutes are cut for a particular game. Ideally, the starters would blow out weaker opponents early, so that they've "earned" the night off, and you can give second and third unit players good burn, while resting your starters. Also, don't be afraid to use bench heavy rotations on a few "big games" to build their confidence (think of the spurs sitting Duncan and Parker vs. the Heat in the regular season).

    Personally I like the fact that Casey has experimented with unusual line ups: including the Vasquez-Lou Will-Lowry 3 PG line-up, and the super small Hansbrough-James Johnson-Demar-Williams-Vasquez line up he played during the Heat game. It was mostly effective, with the exception of some giving up a bunch of offensive rebounds. Inserting Lowry for Williams or Amir (who was not available for the Heat game) for Hansbrough, and that should help limit offensive rebounds.

    Supplemental Conclusion: Whether you think the Heat are the real deal or not they do pose a serious match-up problems for our defense. (I'm not worried about our offense since Lebron can only guard one player, and even if they put him on lowry we can go to a two-pg line up and have the other pg initiate the offense.) Both Lebron and Kevin Love create problems for our defense.

    Lebron, because he is the best player in the world and he is flat out to big and strong for Ross (except in limited minutes/switches-- I am a firm believer that you can't afford to double him, and guys just have to try their best if they get switched on to him).

    Kevin Love, although I do think that Amir will be able to do an adequate job of guarding Love, Love stretches the floor and pulls Amir, our best help defender, away from the basket. This is very problematic as it gives driving lanes to Iving and driving/post-ups to Lebron. Although I'm hopeful JV can make strides on help defense this year, I'm not certain he will be able to be the help defender we need come playoffs.

    Rotations I'd like to see in preparation for the Heat.

    1) Back-court of Lowry/Vasquez-Ross-James Johnson.

    Why? James Johnson is probably our best wing defender-especially for bigger wings. Lou Williams is our instant offense from the bench, and if he's hot we definitely need to ride him. However, there will probably be playoff games where he's just isn't making his shots and hurting the team. Being able to insert Ross at the two alongside Johnson could be a useful rotation for a handful of stretches throughout a 7 game series.

    2) Front-court of Hansbrough-Patterson-Amir

    Why? The most devastating offensive option the heat have is a Lebron-Love pick and roll. In this scenario you hoping that Patterson or Hansbrough can make it tough on Lebron to post up, and at least challenge mid-range shots. That way Hansbrough and Patterson switch everything on the PNR, and Amir is their for help defense if lebron beats them on the drive.

    Not saying these line ups are ideal or that they'll work, just that they may be useful in limited minutes, so why not give them a little burn during the season.
    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

    "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  • #2
    I have no issues with Casey's rotations thus far. We are winning so I see no reason to be concerned. If we were losing then I could see the need to look at it more closely. If he continues to mix things up with the second unit then all the better. I too, agree, that some versatility and flexibility in the lineup can be a great advantage, and now is the time (early in the season, weak opponents, extended home court stretch) to experiment with various lineups. LouWill and JJ seem to be settling in nicely, and I'm happy Hansbrough is getting minutes as backup C. Steims has been pretty good so far as well in limited time. We are deep, so shuffle the deck and let's see what works most effectively.

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    • #3
      If we're blowing teams out, I wanna see more of Bruno and Bebe. Not Chuck Hayes.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      "Masai WILL win us a championship"
      - Tim Leiweke

      Ujiri: "One thing I can say for sure is that we will not be stuck in the middle."

      Reporter: "How can you say that?"

      Ujiri: "Because I can say that."

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      • #4
        KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
        If we're blowing teams out, I wanna see more of Bruno and Bebe. Not Chuck Hayes.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        Were either of those guys in uniform last night?

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        • #5
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          Were either of those guys in uniform last night?
          I don't think so lol


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          "Masai WILL win us a championship"
          - Tim Leiweke

          Ujiri: "One thing I can say for sure is that we will not be stuck in the middle."

          Reporter: "How can you say that?"

          Ujiri: "Because I can say that."

          Comment


          • #6
            Great thoughts and analysis, however, Lebron and Love play for the cavs, not the heat

            Comment


            • #7
              KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
              If we're blowing teams out, I wanna see more of Bruno and Bebe. Not Chuck Hayes.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              I do, too. At the same time I'm not surprised if Bruno and BeBe aren't even ready for garbage time.

              Chuck also needs to stay in game shape because he is one of your backup C's. If you have injury problems up front, it's gonna be Chuck you turn to, not BeBe.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • #8
                Landry Fields looked pretty pumped up to play last night. These veterans probably work their butt off in practices hence the respect from Casey.

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                • #9
                  Casey dresses the 13 guys that he is most confident with putting into the line up of a close game if he has to he's not worried about garbage time like the obsession for it on RR. If there's enough injuries the Brazilians will dress, and then they will play garbage minutes. Right now it goes to the guys who didnt play in the game but were dressed.

                  It is ALL about giving your team the best chance to win the current game in front of you.
                  9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                  • #10
                    KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
                    If we're blowing teams out, I wanna see more of Bruno and Bebe. Not Chuck Hayes.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    Its a fair point. However, this is similar treatment to what JV got as a rookie, and the exact opposite to the treatment Bargs got. If you hand them minutes (the only commodity a coach can control), then you run the risk of creating an entitlement in the young players. Instead, if you hold them to a standard of play and on-court conduct, then you create a goal (albeit a nebulous one) for that player to achieve. And playing time is the reward for achieving that goal.

                    I have no problems with the way Casey has been managing their time. Remember, this is not "re"-building anymore. We don't need THESE rookies to be anything right now. What we need is young talent that in 5 years can be a major contributor on the court. Whether that's Bruno and Bebe is irrelevant to me.
                    Welp, that sucked.

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                    • #11
                      Completely disagree with the premise of the article.

                      If the theory of preparing for the playoffs holds, then using hockey subs is completely nonsensical. In the playoffs, benches shorten and starters play more minutes, and only the best bench players play, meaning more mixing of starters and subs. So if you go the entire season with only limited minutes where the starters and bench are mixed, you are handicapping yourself for the playoffs.

                      What Casey should be doing is figuring out what combinations of starters and bench players work best together. Not running out the same 5 man substitution every game.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • #12
                        DanH wrote: View Post
                        Completely disagree with the premise of the article.

                        If the theory of preparing for the playoffs holds, then using hockey subs is completely nonsensical. In the playoffs, benches shorten and starters play more minutes, and only the best bench players play, meaning more mixing of starters and subs. So if you go the entire season with only limited minutes where the starters and bench are mixed, you are handicapping yourself for the playoffs.

                        What Casey should be doing is figuring out what combinations of starters and bench players work best together. Not running out the same 5 man substitution every game.
                        I keep thinking of how well Jonas would fit with the 2nd unit guys....Pat stretching the floor. JJ as a slasher, offensive rebounder, passer and extra ballhandler. GV and Lou with primary creating duties (with Lou obviously looking more for his own shot)...JV attracts attention making everybody's job easier. Good passers at 2-3 spots who can look for him down low (think with JJ especially they could be surprising together).

                        I also think that especially against smaller wings, DeMar mixing back in with the 2nd unit would do similar things and work really well, though it may mean sitting JJ to keep another big on the floor, or sitting Pat to have a better rim protector.

                        Oddly enough the mix I like the least has been out on the floor at least a couple of times, and that's the 3-guard lineup with Lowry, Lou and GV. Not a huge fan of it. Makes us very perimeter oriented (especially if 2Pat is out there) and so far we haven't run them out there with Jonas, Amir, or even DeMar (interior and/or post threats).

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                        • #13
                          It's 7 games in. Like all coaches, he experimenting with rotations while integrating 2 guys expected to be integral parts of the rotation. Add that if you are actually going to use the depth that the GM has worked hard to obtain, you've got to actually use them, while giving rest to the starters. This rotation pattern we're seeing isn't going to exist for 82 games, but for now it's accomplishing:
                          - getting the 2 new guys plenty of time to integrate with the guys they'll play most with
                          - extending rest time for the starters, an obvious use of the depth

                          There's a LOT of season left to play out, and there will be plenty of time to fine tune and tighten (when needed) the rotation. In the meantime, what he's doing isn't exactly hurting a 6-1 record. It's early guys, it's early.

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                          • #14
                            With Salmons gone there really isn't a bad combo. Hope Casey figures out a checking/goon line though

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                            • #15
                              raptors999 wrote: View Post
                              With Salmons gone there really isn't a bad combo. Hope Casey figures out a checking/goon line though
                              Goon line:
                              PG- Lowry
                              SG- Vasquez or Angry DeMar
                              SF- James Johnson
                              PF- Tyler
                              C- Steamer
                              "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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