What is our style of play or identity?

[CalgaryRapsFan]

This is exactly what im talking about. So much has changed from the start of the season... I am not sure if the players even realize what they are doing or how there roles should have changed

You don't even have to consider the entire season to see that - just look at last night's game.

The first half was a fantastic display of team-oriented, pass-first ball. Some 'good' shots were missed (ie: JV & JJ in close, Ross, PP and Lowry from 3pt land), but the ball movement was fantastic.

The second half started out as a hero-ball brick-fest (DD, Lowry & Lou), with the guards taking turns forcing their offense, leading to terrible shots and turnovers. Once the selfish perimeter game reappeared, OKC was able to collapse into the paint, making it nearly impossible for the Raptors to re-establish an interior game (ie: JV post-ups or dribble-penetration). It was a tale of two teams, with the 'bad Raptors' causing the game to be lost.

Taking it one step further, this good/bad Raptors really boils down to how DeRozan and Lowry play. DeRozan's best game as a Raptor was the home win against LAC, when he played a tremendous all-around game. His first half last night was similarly fantastic; he picked his spots to attack, didn't settle for any bad shots and made his teammates better. In the second half, he was forcing everything, to the point that Jack called him out numerous times for terrible shot selection (I even remember his selfishness leading to losing the ball from behind during a 3-on-1 break, where a quick pass to Ross would've resulted in a highlight-reel dunk). My point is, it just seems like the Raptors go how DeRozan/Lowry go - the same could be said for Lou and the 2nd unit on most nights. For key players to have such vastly different approaches to the game even from half to half, it has to come back to the coach, either for game-planning decisions or wavering accountability.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I think both things could be true: (1) Casey's systems (on both O & D) require a tremendous amount of energy to execute properly, (2) guys are being selective about how much energy they want to put out at this time of year, with a playoff spot already locked up (i.e. lazy), and some guys banged up (e.g. Lowry).

Leaving players out for long stretches at a time (ie: JV and DD often play entire quarters at a time) doesn't help either. If players are going to be pushed at both ends, in order to properly execute the team system, then shifts need to be shorter with a more complicated substitution pattern. Again, it's ultimately on DC.

[Axel]

I don't know about lazy. Everything these guys do is difficult. Putting up 20+ shots is difficult. Why would they be working hard on the ineffective things while not working hard on things like cuts, defence, transition, etc. They are just following the system thats in place.

Putting up 20+ shots isn't difficult. Making them is, but there is a reason why the expression is "settle for jump shots". Driving, putting pressure on the defence with hard cuts and movement is hard. Jacking up shots over the top of the defence is the easiest thing to do.

[golden]

Leaving players out for long stretches at a time (ie: JV and DD often play entire quarters at a time) doesn't help either. If players are going to be pushed at both ends, in order to properly execute the team system, then shifts need to be shorter with a more complicated substitution pattern. Again, it's ultimately on DC.

Problem is that it's only the guards (Lou, DD, Lowry, GV) who are being pushed hard on the offensive end to create shots by themselves. That expends a lot of energy on O, without taxing the opposition D. IMO, this is at least a partial reason for the chronically shitty perimeter D and consistent initial penetration by the opposing PG/SG.

[Jangles]

Putting up 20+ shots isn't difficult. Making them is, but there is a reason why the expression is "settle for jump shots". Driving, putting pressure on the defence with hard cuts and movement is hard. Jacking up shots over the top of the defence is the easiest thing to do.

Agree that it is easier but taking 20+ jumpers a game is still tiring and can be considered a difficult thing to do. To add, hardly ever does a player simply walk up and put up a shot. Just before shooting they make a hard turn, a hard stop, a pumpfake or two, etc, etc.

[golden]

Putting up 20+ shots isn't difficult. Making them is, but there is a reason why the expression is "settle for jump shots". Driving, putting pressure on the defence with hard cuts and movement is hard. Jacking up shots over the top of the defence is the easiest thing to do.

Actually, I'd kind of agree and disagree. Making hard cuts is hard, but that takes less pressure off the ball handler as the sole creator. The load is shared and distributed and also tires out the opposing defense, which helps you on the other end.

However, with Casey's offense, he wants to limits turnovers, so the ball-handler, has to be shot-creator and shot-taker. To top it off, the whole league knows this, so the degree of difficulty required to get a good shot by our guards is magnified and the opposing D only needs to bring one help defender and/or pack the paint.

I'd argue that 20+ shots by our guards is harder than just jacking up 20+ shots early in the clock in another system.

[RandomGuy]

Easy. Pound the rock.

[007]

Losing

[S.R.]

Losing

Haha, after the next loss I wanna hear Devlin shout: "Now THAT'S Raptors basketball!!!" Or he can shout it on any contested long two. Or every time Lowry or DD shoot after their first 15 FGA. Or anytime a guard jacks any early shot clock bad look without passing the ball. Or anytime they show JV on the bench in the fourth quarter.

[Bendit]

There is a lot of decent reasoning here and I cant add anymore.

But I'll say that this evolution or should I say transformation of the team over the last season plus shows how difficult it is to put a sustainable system together and the many elements that need to be aligned for the most part. It is not easy. Masai has indicated how surprised he was and mentioned the elusiveness of good chemistry...and I assume he meant this for all levels..between mgmt, coaches and the team. So, he decided to test the team out for another season (brought everyone back). If things do not revert what shall he do next?

I fear this elusiveness of chemistry is real and for some reason the team has lost at least some of it (I am being optimistic). The current Lowry is not the same Lowry as beginning of the season and end of last. He is the spear and its not his shooting that is of primary concern.

[Axel]

Agree that it is easier but taking 20+ jumpers a game is still tiring and can be considered a difficult thing to do. To add, hardly ever does a player simply walk up and put up a shot. Just before shooting they make a hard turn, a hard stop, a pumpfake or two, etc, etc.

Are you seriously trying to say that dribbling around the perimeter and then pump faking before shooting is harder than driving the lane, cutting hard and setting screens (you know, a real offence)?

[MACK11]

Also if Casey would ICE the P'n'R, the players wouldn't have to make a bunch of unnecessary rotations. But nope let's give the middle on P'n'R all the time and get destroyed by the opponent. Do you know why Westbrook had 17 assists last night? The defense let him go middle anytime he wanted which leads to easy drop offs for Kanter and Ibaka because the bigs have to help.

Casey's defensive scheme is outdated and getting exposed by everyone in the league but he refuses to adjust. As long as the players continue to hedge hard on P'n'R's this defense will get exposed time after time.

[golden]

Are you seriously trying to say that dribbling around the perimeter and then pump faking before shooting is harder than driving the lane, cutting hard and setting screens (you know, a real offence)?

We do take a lot of contested shots, so I think you would have to consider those 'hard' shots. Wasn't there some recent stat where DD was leading the league in contested FGs, with Lowry also in the top 20 as well?

And to top it off, you hear Casey and Demar quotes where Casey is promoting the idea of getting to the FT line as a primary offensive strategy, and you start shaking your head. Are Demar, Lou and Lowry actually trying to take difficult, contested shots with no intention of scoring - just get fouled? It does look that way at times.

[Nilanka]

We do take a lot of contested shots, so I think you would have to consider those 'hard' shots. Wasn't there some recent stat where DD was leading the league in contested FGs, with Lowry also in the top 20 as well?

And to top it off, you hear Casey and Demar quotes where Casey is promoting the idea of getting to the FT line as a primary offensive strategy, and you start shaking your head. Are Demar, Lou and Lowry actually trying to take difficult, contested shots with no intention of scoring - just get fouled? It does look that way at times.

I think we're talking about 2 different definitions of "hard" (sexual innuendo notwithstanding).

The contested shots are "hard" in that they are difficult to succeed. But they don't require a lot of work to accomplish, making them easy to unleash. They're not "hard" shots to take.

[golden]

I think we're talking about 2 different definitions of "hard" (sexual innuendo notwithstanding).

The contested shots are "hard" in that they are difficult to succeed. But they don't require a lot of work to accomplish, making them easy to unleash. They're not "hard" shots to take.

Really? Man, we've got a pretty big difference of opinion here - for a change. lol.

I can't find the quote by Doug Collins, but a few times he's said something like, "....people have no idea how difficult it is to even get off a shot at the NBA level against NBA athletes." I have no idea how true or false this is, but even between Euroleague/FIBA and NBA you can see the difference that defensive athleticism makes in scoring effectiveness (see: Kleiza, Linas).

It's not like DD & Lowry etc... are just tossing up random bricks with no hope of going in. To me, it seems like they are working hard to break down their man, find a seam, drive to the hoop and/or get fouled. And they are often facing double and triple teams, who know they're not going to pass. To my eyes, our ISO style makes us work way too hard to get off a decent shot.

The pull-up 3's in transition, I'd agree wholeheartedly.